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-   -   FrogComposband - Dual Wield vs. Weapon & Shield? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10099)

GrimaTheBold June 9, 2020 18:59

FrogComposband - Dual Wield vs. Weapon & Shield?
 
I often see comments that dual wielding isn't the ideal solution for most characters. And looking at the ladder, I think I see more weapon & shield use than I do dual welding.

But when I play I have a real hard time talking myself out of dual welding in most cases. Sure you don't double your damage, but from what I've seen you almost always do significantly more damage with two weapons than one (outside of Maulers of course). When it comes to resistances & intrinsics, I don't think shields are always going to be better than a second weapon. And isn't doing more damage worth trading off a lower AC?

Right now I'm playing a human Life Paladin (CL 27), and my mental image of that character requires a weapon & shield, but I sure have a hard time believing that's my ideal build. For example, with Narthanc and my Tanto of Westernesse, I do a combined 267 vs. Fire susceptible (i.e. not resisting) monsters (more vs. Orcs, Trolls, Ogres, which are common at my depth). Plus I get the other bonuses of Westernesse brand.

If I single wield Narthanc and use Shield of The Undying Lands, I do 211 vs. Fire susceptible. Isn't a 27% increase in damage (plus a few extra HP, SeeInv & FA) worth more than 14 points of AC and +3 Wis?

I know that's just a single example, but I almost always find dual wielding more attractive.

I'm curious what others think - is it really optimal that so many late game and Winner characters are single wielding with a shield?

Edit: just unrelated comment, after several months of playing I found my first weapon of Order. I had never seen one before so I checked the source, and it looks like one in 77 chance that a Holy Lance ego will turn into an Order ego. Considering the rarity, I expected more: Its a Short Sword, 8d1, (+5 +7), resist Sound & Shards.

wobbly June 9, 2020 19:53

How's the damage compare when you multiply it by the % to-hit against 175 AC? (J is 180 from memory)

GrimaTheBold June 9, 2020 20:21

Good point, I didn't think about that. Currently with just Narthanc I have a 40% chance of hitting AC 175.

When dual wielding another light weapon, that falls to 5%.

So when evaluating dual vs. single wield, I definitely need to remember to look at to hit % against high AC's.

I just found Forasgil, and I'm pretty convinced that dual wielding Narthanc & Forasgil is the right choice against the AC's I'm going to run into on DL 29, but against tougher opponents I'll remember to consider the to-hit chance.

CyclopsSlayer June 17, 2020 03:26

To get the best bang-per-buck you also have to consider Dual-wielding skill caps, the Ambidexterity perk, and the offhand weapon as Main Gauches and Wakizashi give dual wield bonuses when in the offhand.


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