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-   -   Dwarven Fencer Smith build viable? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=6778)

Ipnoom May 20, 2014 23:57

Dwarven Fencer Smith build viable?
 
Hello all, hopefully this has not been covered, but in my glances through the forum, I did not see this covered, but if it has, please feel free to link me to it:D

I am thinking if you took a Naugrim of the House of Nogrod, 0/3/4/4 starting stats. Put 7 points into smithing, 3 points into melee and 4 points into evasion. Take Weaponsmithing, Jewelry, and artistry. This idea had you making a throwing axe that is +1 and .9 lbs and 2 rings of accuracy +2 at the first forge. As you level, you take finesse, subtlety etc.

I am not sure if this is viable, or if there is some sort of defect to the throwing axe being wielded by hand or if sub 1 lb axes drop very often (or ever) or any comments.

Feel free to criticize or amend anything I have suggested.

locus May 21, 2014 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipnoom (Post 92812)
Hello all, hopefully this has not been covered, but in my glances through the forum, I did not see this covered, but if it has, please feel free to link me to it:D

I am thinking if you took a Naugrim of the House of Nogrod, 0/3/4/4 starting stats. Put 7 points into smithing, 3 points into melee and 4 points into evasion. Take Weaponsmithing, Jewelry, and artistry. This idea had you making a throwing axe that is +1 and .9 lbs and 2 rings of accuracy +2 at the first forge. As you level, you take finesse, subtlety etc.

I am not sure if this is viable, or if there is some sort of defect to the throwing axe being wielded by hand or if sub 1 lb axes drop very often (or ever) or any comments.

Feel free to criticize or amend anything I have suggested.

I don't think you can craft .9 lbs weapons anymore. Also throwing axes are bad fencing weapons because their dice are so small. A crit with a shortsword is worth two with a throwing axe (not quite, but you get my point).

locus May 21, 2014 00:09

I wonder if maybe a dwarf fencer smith shouldn't use a greatspear? you couldn't take subtlety, but you'd get huge crits, and you could have all the fun of polearm mastery. I'm playing crap-elves right now but if I ever go back to dwarves I might try that build.

Ipnoom May 21, 2014 00:25

I should point out that I am using 1.1.1 since that is what I play on my phone, if that makes a difference.

locus May 21, 2014 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipnoom (Post 92816)
I should point out that I am using 1.1.1 since that is what I play on my phone, if that makes a difference.

Yeah, the weight system is different in 1.2, with implications for fencing smiths. I guess I can't really give you advice then. Trying to fence with a 2d4 weapon is still probably a bad idea regardless.

locus May 21, 2014 00:38

Looking at it, 13 smithing skill means you can make a 4 lbs +1 acc greatspear, or a 3 lbs normal one (and then you wouldn't have to buy artistry, at least for the first forge)

Ipnoom May 21, 2014 01:57

So with the spear, the damage range is so high, that you don't worry about having str add sides? if the weight reduces the number of crits, you don't mind as much since you do so much with each multiple? I must apologize as I am a bit ignorant of how using spears can be optimized.

locus May 21, 2014 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipnoom (Post 92820)
So with the spear, the damage range is so high, that you don't worry about having str add sides? if the weight reduces the number of crits, you don't mind as much since you do so much with each multiple? I must apologize as I am a bit ignorant of how using spears can be optimized.

The difference between 3 str and 0 str on a greatspear is about 25% more damage: not nothing, but not the 60% more damage you'd get on a longsword or the 300% more damage you'd get on a war hammer. So that makes it a reasonable choice for low str characters.

With a 3lbs greatspear and finesse, you do 1d13 extra damage per 9 you go over the target number, or about .78 damage per point. With a 1lbs shortsword, finesse, and subtlety, you do 1d7 extra damage per 5 you go over the target number, or .8 damage per point. They're very comparable, and the greatspear has the advantage that you don't have to buy subtlety and that it does higher base damage.

One major advantage the shortsword has, though, is that it does more total criticals, which is important for Cruel Blow and for the morale effects. Also, you're more likely to find an appropriate magical/masterwork/artifact shortsword as loot than to find a similar greatspear.

locus May 21, 2014 02:48

I guess the greatspear has -1 acc compared to the shortsword unless you buy polearm mastery, which eliminates the advantage of not having to take subtlety. But polearm mastery also gives you a useful ability, so it's still somewhat in the greatspear's favor.

taptap May 21, 2014 11:18

I encourage all fencer and polearm builds, but average bonus damage per skill point is misleading as critical hits come in discrete units. With subtlety there are simply more of them leading to more average damage, even if numbers are close when you hit the critical hit exactly without "wasting" points in the roll.

The whole point of 0 strength / 0.9 lb for fencers is not the slightly increased critical hits compared to 1 lb, it is subtlety+rapid attack without penalties. You can simply not do a spear build based on rapid attack not affecting average damage. That is why there is no intrinsic reason, other than the challenge, to make a 0 strength polearm character.

When starting 0 strength chars as fencers I found it useful to make a glaive at the first forge until I got sufficient accuracy and subtlety to do damage that way. You do not have to build the whole character at the first forge.


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