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-   -   where are my arrows? (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8736)

Sky November 30, 2017 12:54

where are my arrows?
 
how rare exactly are arrows of slay evil?

i'm now at 7 million XP, have been grinding DL97 for over a dozen runs, and in the entire game i found ONE stack of plain arrows of slay evil, and no holy might. i think in my entire career i have found maybe 3 or 4 stacks of HM arrows (i see bolts of HM much more often, there was one already in this game).
but slay evil?? i can't even find unbranded seeker arrows, i must have found maybe 3 unbranded seeker and 4-5 unbranded mithril in the whole game .. and you know what my games are like. i've had time to find 2 rods of heal, 1 of restoration, a dragon armor artifact, every ring of power short of the one ring, but still no HM. wow.

luneya November 30, 2017 13:37

Holy might is pretty rare. Slay evil less so; you've just been unlucky. If you don't find anything useful by the time you've hit max level and gotten a really awesome collection of loot in every other category, you can always just melee Morgoth. You won't have the benefit of overpowered ranger archery, but it's still perfectly winnable. (I'm assuming you're a ranger, because if you aren't, why are you wasting time looking for arrows?) People have managed to beat Morgoth to death with shovels; doing it with an endgame melee weapon isn't a problem.

PowerWyrm November 30, 2017 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by luneya (Post 126597)
Holy might is pretty rare. Slay evil less so; you've just been unlucky. If you don't find anything useful by the time you've hit max level and gotten a really awesome collection of loot in every other category, you can always just melee Morgoth. You won't have the benefit of overpowered ranger archery, but it's still perfectly winnable. (I'm assuming you're a ranger, because if you aren't, why are you wasting time looking for arrows?) People have managed to beat Morgoth to death with shovels; doing it with an endgame melee weapon isn't a problem.

People managed to beat Morgoth to death with fists, wearing no artifacts or even egos.

Sky November 30, 2017 14:48

oh no no, that's not what i mean, at all. i *do* have overpowered archery, since i found a ring of power with +2 shots. must have forgot to mention it.

still, what the hecking fick, and diddily do, slay evil arrows shouldn't be so rare that i can max out a HE ranger and only find 20 or so of them. i did CL1-33 at DL30 and 33-48 at DL70, and i'm now at DL98. still nothing. haven't even found any good number of Wounding, i think i found maybe 3 stacks throughout the whole game.

Derakon November 30, 2017 16:38

An artifactless egoless weaponless melee win? Are you sure about that? I've heard of each being done in isolation, but all three conducts in the same run...!

PowerWyrm November 30, 2017 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky (Post 126600)
oh no no, that's not what i mean, at all. I *do* have overpowered archery, since i found a ring of power with +2 shots. Must have forgot to mention it.

maaaaaaaaaaan.....

Estie November 30, 2017 18:50

Thats the thing with archery, you need so many stars to align for it to be imba that it rarely is imba.

Best chance for that kind of ammo are GVs; either keep farming, or cut your losses and kill Morgoth with whatever.

Derakon November 30, 2017 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estie (Post 126606)
Thats the thing with archery, you need so many stars to align for it to be imba that it rarely is imba.

Best chance for that kind of ammo are GVs; either keep farming, or cut your losses and kill Morgoth with whatever.

Good launchers show up pretty commonly; all you need is a source of extra shots. In Vanilla your choices are either to be a Ranger or to use a launcher with Extra Shots on it (since no good artifact launchers have Extra Shots), which rules out most artifacts. In randarts you can find off-slot Extra Shots and there can be good randart launchers that also have Extra Shots on them.

In other words, imbalance in standarts is mostly limited to rangers and anyone lucky enough to find a <+2, +2> Buckland sling with good +to-dam; imbalance in randarts is strictly more common because it has those two cases plus potentially other randart-based cases.

Sky November 30, 2017 20:54

it's over. i won, he lost.

i actually had to bail out of my first fight, losing quite a bit of good quality arrows. luckily, on my second try, i found 3 stacks of seeker wounding arrows.

no *destruction, although i had kelek. i also had ONE scroll of banishment and zero MBan, but i did have 30 *heal, 30 heal, 30 mana, 7 Life, 3 rods of heal, and +20 base speed encumbered.

i spawned in the south east corner, and cleared the room (although i could have done so faster), nuked morgot with all i had from a rune of protection, and when he got close i TS to another corner.

if he summoned something strong, like a reaver, i would teleport it away.

instead he summoned dragons and liches. i'm dumb, so instead of teleporting morgot away, i would TS to the opposite side, and wait for him. When he shows up, i nuke him, and then TS back to the opposite side .. and clear out the room of his previous summons, while he comes back.

this has the slight advantage that, while you were fighting morgot, some of them might have moved through the dungeon.

shooting with a 5x Lothlorien (+14 damage, i later found a 4x +24 that did more damage), CL50 ranger with a randart ring of +2 shots.

i can't seem to win with anything besides overpowered characters. two rangers, 1 rogue with a ridiculous weapon with 800 vs evil, and one mage where i basically meleed morgoth and used just rune and MBan.

kandrc November 30, 2017 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky (Post 126608)
i can't seem to win with anything besides overpowered characters

It's easy. You just go down sooner.

This isn't a "dive, dive, dive" post, clearly, since we're only talking about 1 DL. If you never die to Morgoth, you're waiting too long; frankly, it's not even fun if there's no real danger. My last winner took him on with 17 base speed (and only had, if I recall correctly, 7 speed potions). It's not at all rare that I face him with < 20 (though 17 is pretty low). Nor is it uncommon that I take him on while missing one or more of RBase.

And you said you had like 30 *heal*? I can't remember the last time I found that many in a whole game, let alone carried them to the final battle.

I also don't use banishment or mass banishment. I find both of them to be unbalancing.


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