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xorzac October 1, 2016 19:13

Ever had Morgoth literally drop 1 star per round?
I just pwned him in 9 rounds. Song of slaying/sharpness, bast SW of fury, LS of glamdring, 20 melee, 9 str buffed, 6 Dex buffed. Momentum, flank, ZoC, rapid attack. Highest plus I noticed was +51.

I didn't even set foot on 900, it skipped me to 950. Turn 6107. Oh, and I had a 6! on a troll guard (highest crit I've ever had), and the stupid amethyst serpent killed gothmog with frost LOL. Almost fell out of my chair laughing.

I really need to find a way to play 1.3, I need a challenge. :)

xorzac October 1, 2016 21:22

And done. Dump posted, and I did a few in game notations.

I might try a harder race now, see what I can do. Change style maybe?

I'm amazed no one has came close to wildkhanie - my build certainly could be better? I might try little to no evasion - he only had 8 in it till the throne room (enough for flank).

Or smithing? Singer? Archery - bows don't drop enough.

debo October 2, 2016 00:21

I think 1.2 came out very shortly after WildKhaine set those records, so everyone moved onto the new version. (This doesn't make your accomplishment any less amazing.)

I'd definitely like to see what you could pull off in 1.3!

xorzac October 2, 2016 00:43

I'm trying a singer next - my limited experience with it says it might even be better than my melee oriented build.

What are the major changes in 1.2 and 1.3? XP drop for arts is not major - I only had a handful, mostly mid game. Uniques again, look at my list of uniques. Not many. I could have easily obliterated morgoth at 5k turns, getting to him would have been near impossible though (the throne room is set up so badly, you can't help but blast him to oz with SOS). If song of slaying and the melee abilities have not changed much then surely 10k turns or less should be possible even if morgoth is harder?

Edit: singer/melee hybrid, I'm going to use subtlety, finesse, and other skills which synergize with those 2. Plus slaying, este, sharpness, and staying. If I'm right, my record should fall to XorzacIII . . .

debo October 2, 2016 01:34

Major changes are:

- chasms
- many monsters gained abilities (orc warriors have charge, cat warriors have exchange places, etc.)
- Morgoth has 2 songs that he uses against you that basically require you to have ~28 effective will vs. slowing (so lotsa will or multiple sources of FA)
- trap placement is 1000x more annoying

- the early game was changed up completely (new monsters)
- higher chances of finding better items at depth

Somewhere in there, song of sharpness was heavily nerfed also. Weapon sharpness brand stays the same.

xorzac October 2, 2016 02:33

So more evade or faster killing power is needed for sure. SOS might get more use earlier.

Though if he is using songs, he is not causing quakes ( he only did 1 against me, out of melee range, I think my 2 to 4! Crits maybe stunned him?).

Pots of quick can counter slow, too.

Song of sharpness I mainly used on the crown, it was overkill on the "chaff", but likely helped me kill morgoth in 9 rounds. Still would have dropped without it, in this version. I didn't use it on him in first win.

Chasms, that would obviously need a counter!

I'd have to study 1.2 and 1.3 winners and see what they used to adjust.

debo October 2, 2016 06:17

His songs are modal just like the player's, so he will definitely wack you (and potentially quake you) while singing.

You wouldn't have had crits affect Morgoth unless you also had Cruel Blow, and I think that will be very hard to do in recent versions (IIRC that calculation changed also.)

Finally, Morgoth quakes you when he tries to hammer you, but your evasion roll is close to his melee roll -- basically, "narrow misses" cause quakes. Having very high or very low evasion can reduce the chances of this happening by a lot (although if it's on the low end, you obviously need to be able to tank the hits.)

xorzac October 2, 2016 07:27

With his evade at +20 and my to hit as high as the low 50's, I would think he saw crits (but you are referring to later versions I presume).

That definitely would make it a lot harder. Sharp weapon would be near essential (to my knowledge I've never found one). And that is no substitute for high end crits. You would need a big mean weapon like a mattock to attempt my way, with a to hit penalty.

Yeah, definitely see why no later versions near the top.

wobbly October 2, 2016 11:14

If I'm adding the numbers up right crew blow is 2% chance for 3 crits rising to 50% chace at 5 crits in 1.3 against Morgoth.

I think it took 17 rounds for me (I looked for when the crown dropped to when he died) to take him with Anaruth & Orcrist at around that level of melee & song, though I had a fair bit more evasion & will.

Infinitum October 3, 2016 16:31

Cool run you got there. Pretty sure the dropoff rate for song of slaying was accelerated in later versions as well? Can't recall ever having higher than 25-ish even with 10+ song invested. Was V's hp boosted as well? Killing him is way more a pain than it used to be iirc. Dunno how one would go about killing him without scumming in 1.3; some sharp weapon would definetly be needed I think.

xorzac October 3, 2016 17:15

I had +28 from song, +51 melee total. I had items which boosted melee further. I also kicked the living tar fast out of the trolls.

xorzac October 3, 2016 17:17


Originally Posted by wobbly (Post 113194)
If I'm adding the numbers up right crew blow is 2% chance for 3 crits rising to 50% chace at 5 crits in 1.3 against Morgoth.

I think it took 17 rounds for me (I looked for when the crown dropped to when he died) to take him with Anaruth & Orcrist at around that level of melee & song, though I had a fair bit more evasion & will.

Cruel blow increases critical in later versions??? Your post is confusing.

wobbly October 3, 2016 18:03

Sorry. Cruel blow is 4xlevel of critical (e.g. !=4,!!=8,!!!=12 etc.). Morgoth is will 20. Opposed d10 rolls. E.g. d10+no. of critcalsx4 vs d10+will 20.

So 3 crits(!!!) & morgoth rolls 1(10%) for 20+1 you'd need to roll 10(10%) for 10+12 (so actually 1%)
I was probably off for 5 crits as that's d10+20 vs d10+20 & draws probably go to the defender (40%?, I'll let you do the maths here)

That's Sil 1.3, I'm not searching out the old sil 1.1 manual to check

xorzac October 3, 2016 20:30

He still has 20 will & cruel blow looks the same.

If at +50 w/ slay included, avg. +30 against his evade. So 30/4.5 = 7. 7th lvl of crit on avg. I'd say it's likely he will get confused at some point.

xorzac October 3, 2016 21:13

So I have slaying up to +43, and have hit 12! against several troll guards. Pretty sick!

xorzac October 3, 2016 21:19

9 rounds. Highest crit was 10!, lowest was 4. He was confused entire time. Hit me twice. I didn't even bother to use quickness lol. First swing had a +38 slay to it.

Turn 5217. Easily could have knocked over 100 off that but I thought I found fingon but it was the crap one - bleh.

debo October 4, 2016 00:29

In 1.2 and beyond, V gets a bonus to will when the crown is knocked off.

Freeya August 16, 2018 08:26

I attempted this earlier today, though version 1.1.1. Got to +94 melee (the slay bonus) with 48 song, a 1d17 weapon (counting +dmg), subtlety. 2 rounds, 3 hits total. Could be rng, but it looks to me like it could be done. My numbers certainly could be improved. Was amusing to see so many ! that the name of the enemy disappears. I one shot a couple uniques and 2 of the horrors toward the peak.

Oh I misread the title. Well it looks like he might be killable in 1 round if done correctly and lucky.

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