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-   -   monster.txt (version 4.2.0) (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10059)

Tibarius May 17, 2020 18:16

monster.txt (version 4.2.0)
 
Hey Nick,

just took a look at the 4.2.0 version, because i actually could not find any explanation for power and scaled power used in the 4.0.4 version in monster.txt.
If you can, would be kind to give a quick explanation of what those numbers influence. Thanks

By the way, your comments in monster_base.txt to each type / race are pretty cool. But actually currently it seems that you need to define in monster.txt anyway all attributes a monster has.
Would be cool if you could define in monster_base.txt some basic stats, which are taken if monster.txt specifies nothing otherwise. Could shorten monster.txt and make things more conform to how you think they should be.

For example: ants have (to your comment) strong attacks for their depth, but actually a soldier ant makes 1d2 melee damage ... so either we have a different understanding about strong attack or your comment is currently nothing more than a 'wishlist'.

Nick May 18, 2020 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibarius (Post 145565)
just took a look at the 4.2.0 version, because i actually could not find any explanation for power and scaled power used in the 4.0.4 version in monster.txt.
If you can, would be kind to give a quick explanation of what those numbers influence. Thanks

So back in the 3.3-ish era, there was an attempt started to measure monster power algorithmically, initially to support "randomised uniques". This led to a whole file (mon-power.c) to measure this power, and the only place it was used by 3.5 was in measuring the power of slays in the measurement of object power. So we had a lot of computation (some of it based on pretty weak assumptions) to measure a few values (slay power) that turned out to be about what you would guess anyway. This didn't seem worth keeping, but on the other hand one of the principles I was working with for 4.0 was to make it gameplay-identical (or as close as I could) to 3.5.1. So as an intermediate step I put the calculated monster power values (power and scaled power) in monster.txt, with the intent of removing them completely in 4.1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibarius (Post 145565)
By the way, your comments in monster_base.txt to each type / race are pretty cool. But actually currently it seems that you need to define in monster.txt anyway all attributes a monster has.
Would be cool if you could define in monster_base.txt some basic stats, which are taken if monster.txt specifies nothing otherwise. Could shorten monster.txt and make things more conform to how you think they should be.

For example: ants have (to your comment) strong attacks for their depth, but actually a soldier ant makes 1d2 melee damage ... so either we have a different understanding about strong attack or your comment is currently nothing more than a 'wishlist'.

I see your point, but in fact there is a lot of art as well as calculation in getting individual monsters correct. So the comments in monster_base.txt are to inform the person who is constructing monster.txt the guidelines which are supposed to be currently used (as you point out, not always perfectly). The basic idea is to put as few limits as possible on what can be done by changing the datafiles.

tangar May 18, 2020 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibarius (Post 145565)
Would be cool if you could define in monster_base.txt some basic stats, which are taken if monster.txt specifies nothing otherwise. Could shorten monster.txt and make things more conform to how you think they should be.

Sorry, but I would rather suggest to move all monsters paramaters from monster_base.txt back to monsters.txt. It will make monster management easier.. It's much easier to rebelance monsters in monsters.txt, where everything lies in one place. Even now having certain stuff in monster_base is making work with monsters confusing as you could forget which flags assigned to base monster. It's much easier to work with monsters in ONE file, when you see the whole bunch of monster parameters in ONE place; then having to look in two files. I know what I'm speaking about as I've recently introduced several dozens monsters in my variant (based at PWMA, which is based at V).

Tibarius May 18, 2020 12:16

good point
 
I think you have a very good point Tangar, but as long as there is the monster knowledge overview available, as long as basically there is the need to have a list of monster races/types as well.

Just as an idea, that information could also be presented dungeon level dependent, and then the need for a race list would no longer be there.


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