Angband Forums

Angband Forums (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/index.php)
-   Vanilla (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Idea - naming dungeon spell books (http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10210)

drquicksilver August 13, 2020 07:53

Idea - naming dungeon spell books
 
I always quite liked the old books which were named after famous wizards (Kelek's, Raal's, etc) but they are way off-theme, coming from D&D or who knows where. I wonder if a fun way to bring that back, but in-theme, would be to name each of the dungeon books after an appropriate Ainur. That differentiates the dungeon books clearly so new players can see they are 'special' and it would provide a link to the names and descriptions of some of the artefacts and the Maiar in-dungeon. Without thinking too hard (and by no means an expert on the Tolkein's pantheon):

Mithrandir's Arcane Control
Curumo's Tome of Power

Aiwendil's Creature Dominion
Osse's Nature Craft
Yavanna's Wild Forces

Tulkas's Blessings
Manwe's Wrath

Sauron's Deadly Powers
Melkor's Corruption of Spirit

whartung August 13, 2020 17:32

Gandalf's Notes and Shopping List

tangar August 13, 2020 17:56

sorry, but putting valar names of book's spine is sacrilege :rolleyes: I like traditional band's lore, it''s fun.. there were already plenty of changes in magic books recently, it will be good to leave it alone for a while, so people will get used to new stuff

wobbly August 13, 2020 18:37

I like the names suggested, though I'm also fine with less Tolkien names too, such as the old set (Raal's etc.). To my mind anything is better then "the dull book of blandness" which is what the current set are called. Maybe that's a little unfair, some of the names are actually not that bad. Some are just ..."first spells". Not exact flavoursome. Hard to get excited about finding "Nature Craft" even though it's actually a useful book.

Saru August 13, 2020 19:35

+1 to the suggestions.

In response to @tangar, I feel that if we're ever going to change the names to something more interesting (which I heavily support), now would be the time before people get too used to the bland current names.

Nick August 14, 2020 01:33

I quite like this idea, but it will have to wait for version 4.3 because it will break savefiles. This gives us plenty of time to discuss appropriate names - have at it!

archolewa August 14, 2020 01:36

The Tulkas Techniques for one of the Blackguard books.

Morgoth's Musings for one of the others.

Manwes Manual for a priest book.

Radagasts Recipes for a druid book.

EDIT: FIngolfin's Fury should be the new name for Battle Blessings.

DavidMedley August 14, 2020 03:58

At least with the current design, two classes must share books. I don't know if that's got to be the way for all time, but if we made 8 books and didn't do any fudging in the cave creation process then we'd either find a lot more of other classes' books or a lot less of our own.

When I was working on the 4.2.1 Blackguard spell list, I tried to tailor them to the names of the books. Wish someone had started this thread last year!!! :mad: :mad: :D :D :D

Anyway, I didn't find the names too bland. But I do very much like the idea of putting Valar and Maiar names onto and into the books.

DavidMedley August 14, 2020 04:05

I was pretty jealous of the name "Grond's Blow" or something to do with Grond, so I'll throw in a request for a transfer right here.

Nick August 14, 2020 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMedley (Post 147819)
At least with the current design, two classes must share books. I don't know if that's got to be the way for all time, but if we made 8 books and didn't do any fudging in the cave creation process then we'd either find a lot more of other classes' books or a lot less of our own.

Originally I had blackguard books different to Necro books (Dirty Fighting and Bloodwrath :)), but IIRC changed them because of too many different books being annoying. There may have been another reason too, I don't remember.

tangar August 14, 2020 12:25

damm, folks.. naming the books after valars is just silly, it won't suit game's aesthetics.. Tolkien will turn-over in his coffin.

Maybe call them at least by territories names? eg

Gondolin's Arcane Control
Valinors's Nature Craft
Beleriand's Wild Forces

etc.. though it's also sounds wrong to me. Better have it simple:

Arcane Control
Nature Craft
Wild Forces
..much better in terms of style.

Or maybe call some books as `grimoire`, `manuscript`, etc.. eg:

Arcane Control Crystal
Grimoire of Deadly Powers
Manuscript of Creature Dominion

archolewa August 14, 2020 18:27

I like naming them after regions. I vote for egions, and major non-valar figures. So Fingolfins Fury, Rivendell Rituals, etc. The inplication being these are techniques developed by that person, or in that region.

Voovus August 14, 2020 18:55

Sorry to cause trouble, but I'm very anti-Tolkienization of spellbooks. Those guys didn't teleport around throwing fireballs. To light a fire, they had to either use flint and tinder or a Gandalf.

Thraalbee August 14, 2020 19:39

Agree. Tangar's last idea seems reasonable

bughunter August 14, 2020 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by archolewa (Post 147829)
I like naming them after regions. I vote for egions, and major non-valar figures. So Fingolfins Fury, Rivendell Rituals, etc. The inplication being these are techniques developed by that person, or in that region.

As long as they don't start sounding like cookbooks for regional cuisine.

It's just a cosmetic change (other than the breaking sav files bit) so there's no objective standard, other than "don't add suckage."

If you want to find lore-appropriate names for the books, look to the names of owners of the Rings of Power. Those were really the only high-magic users in ME's low fantasy setting.

Hounded August 14, 2020 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bughunter (Post 147834)
If you want to find lore-appropriate names for the books, look to the names of owners of the Rings of Power. Those were really the only high-magic users in ME's low fantasy setting.

This +1


Though for half-casters (Blackguard, Rogue, Ranger, Paladin) I find it strange that it has to be a "magic" book. Why not just a manual or reference book for their skill set?

drquicksilver August 14, 2020 22:42

Some good discussion and some interesting ideas here. Let me just explain where I was coming from with the Ainur - because it wasn't a completely arbitrary idea and I certainly didn't think it was silly.

Obviously we have to take some kind of liberty because Tolkien's world is not a perfect match for Angband's game, and our characters in this game are not exactly like figures from his stories. However, there is a lot of magic in Tolkien, even though it doesn't really look like gnomes learning incantations out of books.

I personally think the two most obvious 'high' magic users are Gandalf and Saruman - if anyone is close to the Angband mage it's these two. That's why I chose their names for the red books and, actually, I think Arcane Control sounds reasonably up Gandalf's straight and Tome of Power is definitely right up Saruman's street. I used their less usual names just for fun and for the more exotic sound of them. Gandalf and Saruman are both Maiar and there is another Maia, Sauron who seems like a shoe-in for necromancy being the original necromancer; giving the other necromancy book to his boss made sense.

The Nature magic then just seemed like it might be allied to Yavanna and Valar were definitely capable of feats that we would identify as mighty magic. Radagast seemed like a good match for a Creature book and, honestly, Osse was a bit more tenuous.

Priestly powers are a stretch (there isn't much about 'praying' in Tolkien) but since several of the powers themselves already reference Manwe and his allies it didn't seem that big a stretch - Wrath itself already has a prayer inside it named after him.

Nick August 14, 2020 23:04

Oangband has books which are representative of a few of the ideas here:
Radagast's Shapeshifts
Melian's Lore
Bombadil's Songs
Spirit of Yavanna
Mysteries of Angmar

DavidMedley August 14, 2020 23:47

Tolkien's characters do in fact call upon the Ainur to get magical effects.

Voovus August 15, 2020 10:06

I'm with tangar here: this is sacrilege, not Tolkienization.

Is there really anything wrong with, say (for priests):
Beginner's Handbook
Words of Wisdom
Chants and Blessings
Exorcism and Dispelling

;)

Nick August 15, 2020 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voovus (Post 147850)
I'm with tangar here: this is sacrilege, not Tolkienization.

Is there really anything wrong with, say (for priests):
Beginner's Handbook
Words of Wisdom
Chants and Blessings
Exorcism and Dispelling

;)

Well, I can give you a sneak peek here of what I'm planning next...

DavidMedley August 15, 2020 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 147851)
Well, I can give you a sneak peek here of what I'm planning next...

You're going to publish an unfinished beta and sail into The West??

whartung August 18, 2020 15:25

Blackguard.

Charge! - a novel
Fear! - a collection of poems and sonnets
Blood! - tools and techniques
Dance Fighting - curiously blank

Hounded August 18, 2020 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 147892)
Blackguard.

Charge! - a novel
Fear! - a collection of poems and sonnets
Blood! - tools and techniques
Dance Fighting - curiously blank

"Pride and Prejudice and Mayhem" ??

Voovus August 18, 2020 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hounded (Post 147893)
"Pride and Prejudice and Mayhem" ??

Use your Illusion
Appetite for Destruction
...

These might fit a mage better, though... :rolleyes:

DavidMedley August 22, 2020 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 147892)
Blackguard.

Charge! - a novel
Fear! - a collection of poems and sonnets
Blood! - tools and techniques
Dance Fighting - curiously blank

This made me laugh

invisibletroll August 23, 2020 17:24

Dance Fighting sounds like Capoeira. :rolleyes:


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:12.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.