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Old June 9, 2018, 03:15   #596
Nick
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I've now got a priest to CL21, DL19.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
The early game for priests can be kind of brutal. Running into an OoD monster (like grip or fang) on dlevel 1 is usually a death sentence. In fact unless you are playing a strong class, it can be quite hard to kill anything until you get bless online. I would recommend having priests automatically start with bless, or if preferred, making bless the only level 1 spell. (I'd also lower the mp cost to 1).
Yes, fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Priests have a tough time with non-evil monsters, especially fast moving ones like cats. In the past this was mostly ok, because you got portal around level 7. But portal is now in a dungeon book and this makes the early-midgame very hairy. (In normal games you just buy _Tele, so maybe this is still ok) I would recommend giving priest a survival spell early. Something like hold monster or scare monster might be good enough. But if you wanted to be more flavorful, you could imagine a spell called "pacify" which is a single, smite target (ball radius 1) spell that causes any non-evil monster to be healed to full health and fall asleep with max sleep.
I didn't have this problem, but OK. Sanctuary was always deemed useless, but maybe with the new status effects some variant of that would be good. More on the spell pacing later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Orb of draining is super powerful, but I think a priest spell that devastates undead/demons would be a very flavorful addition and would prevent them from being one trick ponies. Something like "bolt of holiness" which only affects undead and does a healthy dose of damage to undead and demons would be a nice addition. It would be in the town books and maybe unlocked at level 20-25 or so.

Dispel Evil and Dispel Undead are both too costly and too inefficient to be anything but mop-up spells in the late game. They have no business being in the town books I think.
I had intended for the Dispels to be staples, but you are quite right that they overlap too much with OoD and are too expensive. I wonder if cutting their mana cost to less than OoD's would be successful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
The pointy penalty is still annoying and frustrating. It seems to me that this is a good candidate to remove when doing a major class rebalance.
I'm not so sure - I actually kind of like the way it works. What do others think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I greatly miss having access to detect doors and stairs and sense surroundings. There were many levels where I had to explore more than 2/3 of the level before finding a stairs. I had an especially frustrating cavern level, where I had to backtrack through the whole level to find the one stairs, since I was stuck with radius one light. (The cavern and labyrinth levels really need to be either redesigned or removed. They are not fun.)
I see the issue with detecting stairs, but I'm trying to avoid just handing out all the utility spells to everyone. Maybe a scroll?

As for level design, I haven't really played enough to get a sense. I just had a really fun labyrinth, but it was small - maybe restrict both of those level types in size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I also miss (slightly) having upgraded bless spells that don't wear off after so few turns. These spells (holy chant and prayer) were problematic and somewhat pointless in the old version, but maybe we can improve them somehow.
Bless is supposed to scale adequately with player level - maybe that needs more work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Another spell I miss is resist heat and cold. This was a very important spell for a low-hp class. I feel like priests should still have it.
I've tried make the resist spells a bit more thematic too, but maybe. When did you notice the lack of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Also what happened to cure/slow/neutralize poison? This isn't super important, but getting rid of poison helps a lot to avoid the tedium of waiting out poison so you can rest.
This is a thematic thing too - resist and cure poison I'm seeing as more nature magic things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I can't cast it yet, but the Heal spell in the first dungeon book is super costly. Maybe this is for the best. If I ever get to the late game, I'll mention how this went.
I can't really tell yet either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
For dungeon books, it might be worth considering how DaJ did book drops. Basically it dropped, book 5, book 6, book 7, etc. and what book that was depended on what class you were playing. So if you got a dungeon book drop it was always for your class. The other dungeon books just didn't show up. Since we have many more book types, I think this would help cut down on clutter.
So there are several issues with books in this branch - proliferation of dungeon books affecting level feelings and just cluttering up the place; spells needed early being in dungeon books; mana costs and fail rates. I'm trying to attack them bit by bit. In particular, I think book 3 for mages and priests probably should be town books.

I'm not exactly sure what to do about the proliferation of books thing. I think having the half-casters sometimes getting their own books is good for clarity, but it does create more useless objects. On the other hand, having the other class books around is kind of nice for promoting curiosity about classes you aren't currently playing (for players who haven't played all the classes yet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
One possible bug in gameplay. call light should light up adjacent walls to stairs. I found that it didn't when I was trying to navigate without wielding a light (I've been having some light problems this game... another thing that only happens in ironman games)
OK, thanks.

This was all very helpful, thanks. All the new classes are really still fairly rough around the edges, but I feel like progress is being made.
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