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Old May 30, 2012, 17:18   #5
Derakon
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Originally Posted by saarn View Post
1) do we really want multiple shots per round to be a major part of missile combat?
Cons: high ammo burn + 40 missile stacks + absorptive armor will make this a frustrating approach. Especially since high finesse characters are going to have a harder time lugging stacks of ammo around the dungeon and are precisely the ones who need to do relatively high damage from distance. Wouldn't this also completely devalue the ranger extra shot bonus?
I think this is mostly a matter of calibration. But why do you say that the finesse characters are the ones who will need to be able to do damage from a distance? Finesse and prowess characters should be broadly equal in melee; the former have a significant advantage against groups and evasive monsters, while the latter have a significant advantage against absorptive monsters. Are you suggesting that finesse characters should be able to shoot iron golems to death?

In any event, I certainly don't think that multiple shots should show up to anywhere near the extent that multiple blows do, for two reasons. First, it's a pain to have to go pick up all that ammo after every fight; second, breakage becomes a more severe issue for every extra shot you have. I think current Vanilla represents a good target: skilled archers get +1 shot, and very rarely (or with high-level rangers) you get +2 shots, but that's it. Of course, it'll be a smoother continuum (getting e.g. 1.47 shots/round instead of just 1 or 2).

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2) No story on throwing. I personally really like the idea of a giant half troll warrior with maxed strength being able to kill a monster by throwing a 100lb chest at it.
I do too, but it's not currently part of Angband so I left it out as a thing we didn't have to do in the first pass. Throwing should be able to be worked into combat as a modification to the basic rules once we have standard missile combat working.

[quote=Magnate]1. What is "ammo prowess"? If it's like 'heft' for ammo, I think it's redundant - isn't this why different ammo has different dice?/[quote]I simply meant the +prowess bonus on the ammo. I recognize that currently this is summed with the bonus on the bow to get a total bonus; my thought was that by multiplying them instead we could get a smoother damage curve for ammunition, slightly less reliant on getting access to better ammo types. I suppose alternately we could do away with finesse and prowess bonuses on ammo altogether. Make their only modifiers be slays and dice manipulation. Then we wouldn't have to deal with summing modifiers any more, while frankly I think ammo would become more interesting.

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2. I don't like the concept of a STR breakpoint below which you have penalties. I'd rather just reverse the use of fin + prow, so that prow determines your shot speed (speed of drawing/loading) and fin determines your damage (accuracy of shot). As you said, once you've drawn a bow any extra strength doesn't increase the damage from it, so it seems to me that the value of strength (and therefore prowess, in our system) is in speed. (This is for bows and xbows but not slings - for slings I agree that fin and prow can have their usual applications.)
So then we're assuming that anyone, no matter how noodly their arms are, can use a longbow with a 60-pound draw weight? We already have the concept of weapons that are too heavy to use effectively; why not extend that to bows as well? Are you worried about a double whammy, i.e. characters who cannot fight at all because their STR is too low?

The main issue I have with using prowess to determine shot speed is that it inverts the user's expectations for what (+X, +Y) means. Normally X modifies your speed and Y modifies your damage, but that would be backwards for bows. Why can't we hide the flip from the user? That is, leave X as the speed-modifier, but secretly it's prowess; leave Y as the damage modifier, but secretly it's finesse. This does amount to lying to the user, and might make things a bit hairy code-wise, but at the moment I think it's better that making the display confusing.

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3. I am wondering whether draw ought to be used for bow shots rather than balance, as with xbows. But I don't think I like not using balance - it needs a different name, but I think we should make the same distinction between lots of shots and damaging shots that we do with melee weapons.
Bows should require the most skill to use, which means that finesse and prowess need to show up the most often in the equations.

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4. I don't think we need separate missile prowess. The skill that makes sling shots do more damage is the same as (or at least, sufficiently similar, for our purposes, to) that which makes weapons do more damage - a combination of putting weight behind it in the right direction for maximum damage. (If we use my idea of reversing the applications of fin/prow for bows and xbows then this issue is nicely fudged for them, since missile finesse is different anyway.)
Fine by me.
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