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Old December 30, 2017, 03:13   #33
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OK, this whole magic revamp thing is going to involve some fairly big changes, so there will need to be some robust discussion. Please don't take my responses personally

Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I can see how making 4 casters all with utility coverd by spells isnt going to work, but I also see a danger of replacing the 2 old casters with a bunch of new hybrids. What is the difference between the pure caster and their hybrid going to be, for 4 schools ?
Short answer is that hybrids will be getting less books and spells, for the most part. I'm also not looking at a "one hybrid per school" model, but rather at picking interesting/thematic classes and the deciding what sort of magic they should get. Also note that hybrids can get different books, not just a subset of the pure caster books; and that there's potential for cross-realm hybrids and more than one non-magical class (if that's what seems to fit the class theme).

Necromancy will need lots of work; in particular I'm looking at possibilities of possession and player shapechange (monster shapechanges will be coming in the monster list revamp). The stuff about spirits and bodies in my original post in the earlier thread is a guide to how I'm thinking about this.

Originally Posted by luneya View Post
Having a character which gets nothing but detections and stuff early might be interesting, but that's not the proper thematic role for a mage. The mage class should have magic missile as the first spell, and then focus primarily on damage spells for the rest of the game (perhaps even to the extreme of having no better detection than a warrior).
I would actually argue that the defining quality of current mages is their degree of control before and after dealing damage, which goes hand-in-hand with their fragility. So ability to detect, teleport and banish in order to choose battles, and ability to get out when necessary. That said, the new class has two of its five books devoted to attacking, and haven't really lost too many useful attack spells (stinking cloud and rift are the obvious ones).

There seem to be quite a few definite ideas about a what a mage should be - I don't know if this is coming from (current or previous) Angband, from D&D (or similar), or from elsewhere. In any case, I think we should be guided rather than bound by any prior influences.

Note that I'm not even trying to put the "elves should be wise, dwarves intelligent" argument - yet

Originally Posted by Sky View Post
i have a different take. i know, that this is only a rough draft, but what is this character supposed to DO ?
the early detect in place of attack is .. weird, but nothing too harsh. well, kinda, but let's call it an advanced class.
but, all that just to get to where you use the same spells that a mage has? because the mage is balanced, you get the spells you need at the level you need them.
this other class has spells you don't need at the start (debatable), spells you do need later on, and then it just becomes a normal mage .. minus a spell or two.

lets look at the classes.

1. warrior: you bonk people on the head.
2. paladin: you also bonk people on the head, and heal.
3. priest: every defensive spell in existence.
4. rogue: multirole with evasion.
5. ranger: melee damage from range, but dependant on arrow supply.
6. mage: limitless weak ranged, and banishment.
7. new mage: ??
If you carefully read my previous post, I think you'll find I answered all your questions multiple times
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