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#1 |
Prophet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 2,938
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What else should not be allowed in vaults?
Right now vaults get a special bitflag that prevents players from teleporting into them. I'm not too big a fan of this, as it actually allows ?phase to be a guaranteed escape from vaults. However, there are various other effects that we could make not work in vaults. Here are some options:
Destruction Banishment Detect objects (dobj, denchantment, clairvoyance) Detect traps/doors Detect monsters/evil/invis Mapping (from clairvoyance, magic mapping and sense surroundings) Teleport self (both phase and long teleporting varieties) Teleport level Teleport other/banish evil Should these also be applied to pits/nests? (I have a long term plan that has isolated sections of the dungeon impervious to detection and mapping, with extra treasure and monsters in them) |
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#2 | |
Angband Devteam member
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Quote:
(a) detection spells cannot be cast while inside vaults or (b) detection spells cast outside vaults do not detect stuff inside vaults or both. Similarly, for teleporting, do you mean unable to teleport into vaults, or out of them or both? Similarly for destruction/banishment: do you mean these cannot be cast/used inside vaults, or cannot affect grids inside them? There are some hugely different implications of these permutations ... |
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#3 |
Adept
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 135
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I would assume what was meant is :
Mapping/ESP/Detection do not show anything that is inside the vault. Mapping would at most show the outer wall. Teleportation of all types : inside of the vault can not be either start or end point of the teleport. Bansihment is a type of teleportation. Destruction has no effect on the vault or its contents. |
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#4 |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,331
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Re: Destruction and Vaults.
IMO, there are two options: Either 1) Destruction removes monsters and items and artifacts, etc., or 2) Destruction doesn't affect vault squares. (This would adversely affect Preserve:Off players, but I'm sure it could be coded such that artifacts removed by Destruction could still be generated later.) |
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#5 |
Knight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 560
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Well about vault floors preventing phasing into vaults, I like this but it has the effect of giving a guaranteed escape from a potentially very dangerous situation. This has all been said before though, so I have one little idea for it:
if source_square is vault then allow dest_square to be a vault square as well. potential problem: one could (in theory) teleport from a vault into a different vault on the level, and a fix for this would be to prevent landing in a vault square that isn't within a certain radius. Could still work if there were two vaults next to each other, but I think this probability is so low, its fine. Plus landing in an uncracked vault could be suicide ![]() EDIT: Also I'd say allow destruction in vaults, but add los checks preventing the blast from passing through perm walls. |
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#6 |
Sangband 1.x Maintainer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 522
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Do vaults have IDs? If so, the teleportation restriction could be based on vault ID rather than vault squares. Alternately, one could restrict teleportation within a vault to LOS, which would allow for a potential for escape, standing in the right places.
Vaults are both fun due to their challenge and their reward. Are we risking making them too difficult? If we incorporate changes like this, should we tone down the monsters (and/or drops) inside? Or are vaults low risk, high reward and in need to a boost to danger? Are there better fixes, like limiting teleport other that would be more suitable?
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#7 | |
Prophet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 2,938
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Quote:
I'm not saying this is a good change, I'm just throwing out ideas. |
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#8 | |
Adept
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 111
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Quote:
Other than that, I'd leave them as they are. While the other changes you suggest might be fine for a variant, I think they're a bit much for Vanilla. |
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#9 |
RePosBand maintainer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 225
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If phase door is guaranteed to pick another square in the vault, and also guaranteed to pick a square without a monster or trap, wouldn't it become the perfect ninja looting tool? While the monsters are asleep you just phase between all the squares with treasure then phase some more until you get reasonably close to an exit
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#10 |
Prophet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
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I don't have any well thought out specific suggestions, but I like where this thread is going, so here's a little ramble.
Let me throw out the following. Differentiate (short range) phase door/blink from (longer range) teleport/portal. Don't allow players to phase/blink into a vault, and allow them remain (treat vault as normal dungeon) if they phase from inside it. Do allow players to teleport into a vault. In my estimation this would almost always be a bad choice for the player, but let it happen. It gives players without STR or STM a small chance to get inside a vault that is otherwise inaccessible. Not allowing teleport/TO to function while within a vault??? I don't know about that. I think that it would just result in the monsters being lured out before the fight. The player must have an escape or a questionable vault will simply be avoided. What if teleportaion, in all it's forms, was unreliable inside a vault. Maybe a 50% chance to fail (even scrolls) on top of the normal chance to fail.
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