[feature request] show, and cycle between, quivered ammo

ghengiz · February 12, 2012, 11:32

I have a modest proposal for an UI improvement, similar to one present in crawl.
I think it would be nice to have an additional row in the UI, perhaps above the status one, where the ammo that would be fired by the 'h' command is shown, as in the following (edited) screen dump

Code:

                                                                              
Dwarf        ##################################################################
Believer     #................................................................#
Priest       #................................................................#
LEVEL      1 #....................................######......................#
NXT       14 #.......##########...................######..........#####.......#
AU       124 #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
\    ~       #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
STR:      18 #.......##########.......###6###.....#8####..........###1#.......#
INT:       4 #.......##2#######...............................................#
WIS:   18/40 #................................................................#
DEX:       7 #................................................................#
CON:   18/10 #................................................................#
CHR:       9 #................................................................#
             #........####3###...................................###7.........#
Cur AC     0 #........########.......##5#####.......####4........####.........#
HP   14/  14 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
SP    2/   2 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
             #........########...................................####.........#
             #...@...............................................####.........#
             #................................................................#
             #................................................................#
             ##################################################################
Quiver: 99 arrows (+0,+0)
Town

If this will be implemented, a command to cycle between quivered ammo should be too.
I'd suggest "(" and ")", the rationale being one of them is the pre-existent symbol for ammo, and to move the screen dump commands somewhere else.

Derakon · February 12, 2012, 17:50

The cycling's a neat idea, but display is trickier. As long as we're married to having a 24-row display (which goes way back), we really can't add any more rows to the display without taking rows away elsewhere. That's why there's only one row for status information, and one row for messages, in the first place.

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

Magnate · February 12, 2012, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon

The cycling's a neat idea, but display is trickier. As long as we're married to having a 24-row display (which goes way back), we really can't add any more rows to the display without taking rows away elsewhere. That's why there's only one row for status information, and one row for messages, in the first place.

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

Well, Sangband broke with it around v1.0, but AFAIK almost all other roguelikes still support it. If we're going to support handheld devices it's probably still a sensible default, but I don't feel strongly about that.

ghengiz · February 12, 2012, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnate

Well, Sangband broke with it around v1.0, but AFAIK almost all other roguelikes still support it. If we're going to support handheld devices it's probably still a sensible default, but I don't feel strongly about that.

good point.
OTOH, handheld devices already have a dedicated makefile (src/makefile.nds), so why don't we go a little further and set the (current) default with a configure option *just for handheld devices*? all remaining platforms would then take advantage of a bigger display without further modifications

Nomad · February 12, 2012, 18:50

You could always fit quiver info into the sidebar below the existing equipment symbols, something like this:

Code:

              
 |}=="~[()]]] 
 Q:{{{{......

And/or this:

Code:

              
 |}=="~[()]]] 
 Quiver: { 99

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

ghengiz · February 12, 2012, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad

You could always fit quiver info into the sidebar below the existing equipment symbols, something like this:

Code:

              
 |}=="~[()]]] 
 Q:{{{{......

And/or this:

Code:

              
 |}=="~[()]]] 
 Quiver: { 99

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

Though the point of my proposal were to see exactly which bonus (if any) has the ammo ready to be fired, and how many of it is still in the current quiver slot, I like your suggestion, because the affix system can simplify the display enough to use, say, D as a shortcut to slay dragon, U for demons etc, so it seems a reasonable compromise between more info and the current display size.
OTOH, a little more row would be clearer, IMO, because you see all the info you may need at once (slays, to hit/dam bonuses, how many ammo is in slot) without deciphering a just-12-columns code

Magnate · February 12, 2012, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

Seeker arrows and bolts are still base items, but that's only six types of ammo in total (normal and seeker arrows and bolts, pebbles and shots).

ghengiz · February 12, 2012, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derakon

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

I personally see no reason to retain that limit...and it has been broken before: try zangband 2.4' gcu big display option in a fullscreen terminal, it shows the "normal" screen in the upper-left, and the messages and inventory in subwindows.

v4 could be a good time to go modern and allow a few more rows in vanilla too

d_m · February 13, 2012, 01:18

I like the idea of this post.

I don't think extending the number of rows required is smart, both for handhelds and GCU. However, if we reduced the amount of the map that the player needs to see (in terms of the max LOS range for missiles/spells) then I think the map size could be more flexible and we could add something like this.

If the map was less wide there might also be room on a (wider) left bar, although I don't think that would be popular with most players.

EDIT: FWIW, the current "default map" size is 66x22 (66 wide, 22 high).

Derakon · February 13, 2012, 05:15

We have over 300% more horizontal space than vertical space. Adding more vertical status information at the cost of map view is thus not a great idea IMO. As it turns out, designing compact yet useful status displays is really hard.

It might be worth considering having a "large screen display" mode which uses a different layout for the main view, while keeping the existing default display so the game still works properly on handhelds, consoles, etc.

For now, I suggest that we add a command to cycle the order of the quiver, and if you want to know what your "currently selected" ammo is, you keep a separate window with your equipment on display. Or just hit 'e'.

February 13, 2012, 01:18	#9
d_m Angband Devteam member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Age: 34 Posts: 1,501	I like the idea of this post. I don't think extending the number of rows required is smart, both for handhelds and GCU. However, if we reduced the amount of the map that the player needs to see (in terms of the max LOS range for missiles/spells) then I think the map size could be more flexible and we could add something like this. If the map was less wide there might also be room on a (wider) left bar, although I don't think that would be popular with most players. EDIT: FWIW, the current "default map" size is 66x22 (66 wide, 22 high). __________________ linux->xterm->screen->pmacs

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February 12, 2012, 17:50	#2
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,230	The cycling's a neat idea, but display is trickier. As long as we're married to having a 24-row display (which goes way back), we really can't add any more rows to the display without taking rows away elsewhere. That's why there's only one row for status information, and one row for messages, in the first place. How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

February 12, 2012, 18:50	#5
Nomad Swordsman Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: England Posts: 465	You could always fit quiver info into the sidebar below the existing equipment symbols, something like this: Code: `\|}=="~[()]]] Q:{{{{......` And/or this: Code: `\|}=="~[()]]] Quiver: { 99` It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

February 13, 2012, 05:15	#10
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,230	We have over 300% more horizontal space than vertical space. Adding more vertical status information at the cost of map view is thus not a great idea IMO. As it turns out, designing compact yet useful status displays is really hard. It might be worth considering having a "large screen display" mode which uses a different layout for the main view, while keeping the existing default display so the game still works properly on handhelds, consoles, etc. For now, I suggest that we add a command to cycle the order of the quiver, and if you want to know what your "currently selected" ammo is, you keep a separate window with your equipment on display. Or just hit 'e'.

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