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 March 4, 2008, 16:07 #1 JamesDoyle Apprentice   Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 53 [User Guide Development] Questions Thought I'd start a new thread for my work on the User Guide in the correct forum At the moment I'm wrestling with how to explain time and game turns, and I'd appreciate some input on this. Turns are shown on the character screen, in the hall of fame (these show the same number), and also tangentially in the number of turns left for a light source. This causes some ambiguity; the former would seem to be the number most people quote as the number of turns taken, but the latter is only (approximately) one tenth of the former, and also the latter is closer to most people's idea of what a 'turn' is, i.e. you move one space, and one turn has passed. The first thing to note, therefore (developers!), is that it would be helpful both for explaining it and for users to understand if these were brought into line with each other, I would presume on the basis of having light sources multiplied by 10. The explanation then has to be, I guess, that (at normal speed) you take 10 turns to move 1 space, and other actions can take anything from 1 turn upwards. Would that seem reasonable?
 March 4, 2008, 19:24 #2 Big Al Swordsman     Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Calgary Age: 27 Posts: 327 Donated: \$18.32 Every "turn", the player and monsters gain a certain amount of "energy". The amount of energy gained is dependent on the player or monster's speed - at normal speed, you get 10 energy per turn. Once your energy is over 100, you get to do an action. So, at normal speed, moving around is exactly 10 turns to 1 action. At eg. +10 speed, you gain 20 energy per turn, therefor it's 5 turns to 1 action. All actions take the same amount of time, except for melee and/or ranged attacks where you get multiple blows per round.
March 5, 2008, 03:13   #3
Anne

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 134
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Big Al Every "turn", the player and monsters gain a certain amount of "energy". The amount of energy gained is dependent on the player or monster's speed - at normal speed, you get 10 energy per turn. Once your energy is over 100, you get to do an action. So, at normal speed, moving around is exactly 10 turns to 1 action. At eg. +10 speed, you gain 20 energy per turn, therefor it's 5 turns to 1 action. All actions take the same amount of time, except for melee and/or ranged attacks where you get multiple blows per round.
Hey, I actually understood that! Woo! Seriously, that's a very good way of explaining it for the benefit of us lil newbies.

 March 6, 2008, 20:07 #4 JamesDoyle Apprentice   Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 53 Intersting that you like that, Anne - I found the use of the 'energy' concept to be an unnecessary complication of explaining Angband time,m and I was deliberately trying to stay away from it! Zaimoni - I tend to agree with you that the character screen number is less intuitive as a time indicator (as it's slightly baffling at first that what seems to be aturn - moving one space) is actua;;y ten 'turns'; but I assumed that precisely because it IS used in the high score list, most veterans would be averse to 'demoting' it to be less signficant than the other definition of turns. Ibviously I have to write the manual to explain both concepts, as they're both there, but I'd be very happy to see one disappear, as I think it's an unnecessary barrier to new players' understanding of the game
 March 6, 2008, 20:36 #5 zaimoni Knight     Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 590 I was doing some testing of a metagaming "exploit" last night that depended on watching the time tick count. [I think it's misleading to call it turns.] V-style stores (as opposed to Zangband-style stores) do not rotate the stock while the player is in town. As the V-style stores rotate every 1000 normal-speed turns (10,000 time-ticks), this leads to a convenient way to intentionally clean out stores of consumables: return to town "right before" the 10,000 time-tick turnover point, to prevent their rotating. (Inverse store scumming: instead of waiting for rotation to get something not in stock, prevent rotation to keep things in stock.) Of course, you point-blank cannot clear dungeon levels at all when doing this. Also, trap doors will ruin this tactic before you have a reliable supply of Word of Recall. [I also found, ahem, several bugs while exercising Zaiband. I think I'm going to have to release the revised line-of-sight/line-of-fire algorithm with a failsafe fallback, there are some exotic abuses of the l)ook command that will cause algorithm invariant failures.]
 March 10, 2008, 20:22 #6 JamesDoyle Apprentice   Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 53 Some more questions, some of which are simple to answer, I think, plus a slight problem I've discovered with my flavour descriptions for wands! Firstly, I'm using the overall term 'magical items' for scrolls, potions, wands, rods, staves, rings & amulets. I don't recall seeing a term for this grouping anywhere, and I don't think it clashes with anything else. I am right? Secondly, cash found in the dungeon can be precious metals or gemstones - I can recall offhand copper, silver, gold, mithril and adamantite for the former, and garnets and diamonds for the latter. I'm sure there are others (platinum, emeralds?) which I can can list while playing (now I've realised I want to!), but if anyone can supply the full list, that would help. Similarly for traps, I have found the following: pits (with or without spikes) trapdoors darts (which can affect STR or DEX - or others?) gas (which can blind or paralyse - or other effects?) runes (which can teleport the character or summon monsters - or other effects?) discolored spots (which can cause fire) What do I need for a complete list? Finally, according to Leon's version, electricity destroys wands, and (apparently) nothing destroys rods. If Andrew adopts my flavour names, as he indicated he might (in part or whole), electricity should probably destroy rods and fire should destroy wands.
March 10, 2008, 20:36   #7
zaimoni
Knight

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 590
Quote:
 Originally Posted by JamesDoyle Similarly for traps, I have found the following: pits (with or without spikes) trapdoors darts (which can affect STR or DEX - or others?) gas (which can blind or paralyse - or other effects?) runes (which can teleport the character or summon monsters - or other effects?) discolored spots (which can cause fire) What do I need for a complete list?
Take a look at the terrain feature editor. All sixteen distinct traps are listed there, although that may not handle all of the pit variations.

 March 10, 2008, 21:17 #8 Pete Mack Veteran   Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,400 Donated: \$40 I think there are 3 kinds of pits. Without spikes, with spikes, and with poisoned spikes.
 March 10, 2008, 21:20 #9 JamesDoyle Apprentice   Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 53 Thanks, both, that's what I was looking for!
March 10, 2008, 21:20   #10
Nick
Vanilla maintainer

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 50
Posts: 4,969
Donated: \$60
Quote:
 Originally Posted by JamesDoyle Secondly, cash found in the dungeon can be precious metals or gemstones - I can recall offhand copper, silver, gold, mithril and adamantite for the former, and garnets and diamonds for the latter. I'm sure there are others (platinum, emeralds?) which I can can list while playing (now I've realised I want to!), but if anyone can supply the full list, that would help.
They're in object.txt, or here:
copper
silver
garnets
gold
opals
sapphires
rubies
diamonds
emeralds
mithril

Quote:
 Similarly for traps, I have found the following: pits (with or without spikes) trapdoors darts (which can affect STR or DEX - or others?) gas (which can blind or paralyse - or other effects?) runes (which can teleport the character or summon monsters - or other effects?) discolored spots (which can cause fire) What do I need for a complete list?
From terrain.txt:

# 0x10 --> visible trap -- trap door
# 0x11 --> visible trap -- open pit
# 0x12 --> visible trap -- spiked pit
# 0x13 --> visible trap -- poison pit
# 0x14 --> visible trap -- rune -- summon
# 0x15 --> visible trap -- rune -- teleport
# 0x16 --> visible trap -- spot -- fire
# 0x17 --> visible trap -- spot -- acid
# 0x18 --> visible trap -- dart -- slow
# 0x19 --> visible trap -- dart -- lose str
# 0x1A --> visible trap -- dart -- lose dex
# 0x1B --> visible trap -- dart -- lose con
# 0x1C --> visible trap -- gas -- blind
# 0x1D --> visible trap -- gas -- confuse
# 0x1E --> visible trap -- gas -- poison
# 0x1F --> visible trap -- gas -- sleep
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