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Old October 11, 2017, 13:32   #21
Quirk
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So I've implemented this as follows:
- when you get struck down and you have this skill, your max HP and current HP get reset to your Will and you are marked as mortally wounded. Your HP will never exceed your Will again. There are some GUI indications that should make this clear and a little message when you're dying.
- CON no longer affects your health.
- It's called "Immortal Courage" - I dislike the name somewhat and if anyone has a better name I'll use it.
- It branches from "Strength in Adversity", and so you'll be at a permanent +2 to STR/DEX/GRA in this mortally wounded state. You just won't have many HP.
- If you disable the skill and take a step, your guts spill out and you die. There is a new custom killed by tag for this.
- I managed to retain savefile compatibility this time.

I've also toned down the experience for chasing monsters off the level a little, after a couple of people voiced the suspicion it might be too good, and set forges to spawn at 100, 400 and 900 - five guaranteed forges is probably also too good.
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Old October 11, 2017, 13:59   #22
Gwarl
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I'm holding off on the update until later because I want to abuse having five forges while I still can.
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Old October 11, 2017, 14:33   #23
Quirk
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I'm holding off on the update until later because I want to abuse having five forges while I still can.
Haha. That's fair.

I'm contemplating how best to rebalance smithing. Choosing what to forge is fun. Ideal would be a situation where every extra few points bought you a little extra utility, but there was no tipping point into Deadly Whirling Sword of Death. That said, the versatility by itself always leaves the skill in danger of turning overpowered.

As it stands it seems like the first things you make can easily exceed the drops you have available at floor 100, but by the time you find your next forge you don't necessarily have XP available to pump more Smithing points, and gaining a couple of points may not be enough to let you smith better gear than the loot you've gathered on your way down anyway. Guaranteed forges make this calculation a little easier, but I think there's still more needing done to solve the problem.
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Old October 11, 2017, 17:00   #24
Derakon
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Would it make sense to have the quality of items you can forge depend in part on the depth at which the forge is found? I don't know how you would explain this in-universe, but it might let you reduce the smithing skill requirements without completely blowing out the power curve of the game (by letting players smith endgame equipment at the first forge).
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Old October 11, 2017, 18:22   #25
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Would it make sense to have the quality of items you can forge depend in part on the depth at which the forge is found? I don't know how you would explain this in-universe, but it might let you reduce the smithing skill requirements without completely blowing out the power curve of the game (by letting players smith endgame equipment at the first forge).
We do have enchanted forges which get more common as you go down. Perhaps the forge at 900 could be forced to be an enchanted one? It's a thought.

And in-universe, of course, Morgoth and his most prized smiths dwell in the lower depths; the forges up top are merely to maintain gate guard equipment.
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Old October 11, 2017, 18:43   #26
Infinitum
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Originally Posted by Quirk View Post
I'm contemplating how best to rebalance smithing
Probably not doable in a game centered on finding items. A good start would be preventing the player from assembling a smithing kit and rebalance point costs from there. Removing smithing boosters would be simple enough, but the only internally consistent way to prevent Grace items that I can see is removing items adding stats altogether. Current items adding stats can keep their effect by replacing it with something mechanically similar, e g:

Strength -> "It (greatly) improves your damage". Have sources increasing damage work as strength does currently ie up to current weapon weight.

Dexterity -> Just improve skills directly.

Constitution -> "It (greatly) improves your fortitude"

Grace -> "It (greatly) improves your voice"; improving skills directly (minus smithing, obviously).

My preferred solution would be axing it altogether and replacing it with a skill focused on knowledge/wisdom where the ultimate ability is creating a custom artefact (using the smithing interface).
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Old October 12, 2017, 01:31   #27
seraph
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hey, i'm a little late to the party but here are some thoughts, in no particular order:

one should be able to kill morgoth, it should just be very difficult. a rework of slaying/sharpness will probably do the job.

for smithing getting rid of artistry is the way to go. it also opens up more chances for incremental upgrades. more guaranteed forges also helps.

quarterstaves still seem a bit weak. for comparison a defender bastard sword in both hands is (-2,3d5)[+2] vs (+0,2d4)[+2] and about the same weight. defender quarterstaves might be nice. maybe some quarterstaff ability e.g. half of your dex is added as str. of vaulting gives them good utility. they are also in weird middle ground between wanting to be light for riposte, and heavy for knockback and smashing blow.

i like feint from a balance stand point, dislike it from a flavour stand point.

flavour-wise, i think smashing blow should be limited to blunt weapons and/or capped by str.

cruel blow and crippling shot likely won't need a rework if slaying gets a rework

also it is worth noting that i have yet to beat sil, but i have made it to the throneroom.

edit: also it doesn't make sense flavour-wise that one can pierce an enemy without killing it.

Last edited by seraph; October 12, 2017 at 01:45.
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Old October 12, 2017, 02:19   #28
Patashu
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Smithing used to be good because you could make stuff that's better than floor drops, then floor drops got buffed. So one solution is as follows - make a difficulty modifier that nerfs floor drops, and then in that mode smithing will be viable (or even optimal).

I guess it's not elegant, but I think alternate ways to experience Sil would be interesting.

EDIT: Also since you want names for 'Immortal Courage'. How about 'Raw Determination'? (My b/f jokingly suggests 'Ultra Instinct', referring to a similar ability in Dragon Ball Super, lol)
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Last edited by Patashu; October 12, 2017 at 02:30.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:46   #29
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Originally Posted by seraph View Post
quarterstaves still seem a bit weak. for comparison a defender bastard sword in both hands is (-2,3d5)[+2] vs (+0,2d4)[+2] and about the same weight. defender quarterstaves might be nice. maybe some quarterstaff ability e.g. half of your dex is added as str. of vaulting gives them good utility. they are also in weird middle ground between wanting to be light for riposte, and heavy for knockback and smashing blow.
Quarterstaves are a bit weak. At (0, 2d4)[+2] they were just useful enough for wobbly to ditch a curved sword for them, but they don't hold up against later game weapons at all.

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i like feint from a balance stand point, dislike it from a flavour stand point.
That it most benefits weapons you wouldn't easily feint with troubles me. Feint sounds like a technique that goes with parry and riposte, and the current design doesn't work like that.

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flavour-wise, i think smashing blow should be limited to blunt weapons and/or capped by str.
Yes, Smashing Blow on an extremely heavy great axe is I think too much right now. I'm playing with alternatives.

I am actually thinking of giving blunt weapons some kind of intrinsic advantage - either reducing armour, or stunning. This would potentially allow them to still be useful while having a lower dice pool.

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edit: also it doesn't make sense flavour-wise that one can pierce an enemy without killing it.
Depends if one is piercing through the chest (pretty fatal), the abdomen (eventually fatal - but only eventually, which is why rapier duels notoriously frequently led to both parties dying) or the thigh or upper arm (not so fatal unless you hit the femoral artery or the wound gets infected). But Sil doesn't model combat with anything like The Riddle of Steel's realism.
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Old October 12, 2017, 17:50   #30
Infinitum
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- It's called "Immortal Courage" - I dislike the name somewhat and if anyone has a better name I'll use it.
Implacable? Defiance? Relentlessness? Resolve?

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But Sil doesn't model combat with anything like The Riddle of Steel's realism.
One solution I've seen and is partial to is replacing the concept of hit points representing health with hit points representing luck. E g replace "Constitution" with something like "Providence", "Destiny" or somesuch and "Hp" with something like "Aegis" or "Fate". Each hit that doesn't reduce this below 0 is effectivly absorbed by the characters plot armor and leaves him (almost) unharmed, and the one that does either kills or cripples him (as it should be).

Last edited by Infinitum; October 12, 2017 at 21:03.
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