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Old January 13, 2018, 05:47   #191
Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypy View Post
If nothing has changed in the meantime, tap device gets 1.5x more energy from wands than staffs. I would have thought this should be the other way around?

Code:
	if (tval_is_staff(obj)) {
		energy = (5 + lev) * obj->pval;
		item = "staff";
	} else if (tval_is_wand(obj)) {
		energy = (5 + lev) * 3 * obj->pval / 2;
		item = "wand";
	}
I stole this from Oangband, where staffs have noticeably more charges than wands. On looking at the actual values in V, I might just make them both the higher value.

Thanks everyone for the continued feedback in this thread - I will answer some more stuff another time, and hope to get a new build out in the next day or so.
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Old January 13, 2018, 08:34   #192
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Haven't played the test branch, but scrolling through the discussion, I wanted to chime in.

Green for druid books goes wonderfully with the theme, and alleviates the colorblindness problem for players going with mages.

IMHO a death sphere hybrid class should be a death knight/antipaladin, not rogue. The rogues should stay as they are, not become any sort of hybrid casters.
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Old January 13, 2018, 10:34   #193
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operating system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
What operating system are you playing on?
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
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Old January 13, 2018, 11:07   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
I am aiming at overworking the mage class. If my 'development' is not widely accepted and replaces the existing class (or adds as new class) then this work will basically be wasted.
I believe you are being perhaps a bit too ambitious - it is reasonably likely that one of the ideas you create will catch on and make it into one or another of the new realms - quite a notable improvement IMO.

That being said, to avoid wasting your time duplicating work I would perhaps recommend not going much further than writing up your ideas and design philosophy until the first (new) version of each realm comes out.
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Old January 13, 2018, 11:32   #195
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questions

What does the -10 in the spell effects tell me?

Frost Bolt for example:
effect:BOLT_OR_BEAM:COLD:-10

And how to define the max range for a spell, currently i see only TOUCH or BOLT_BEAM?
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Old January 13, 2018, 14:59   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
What does the -10 in the spell effects tell me?

Frost Bolt for example:
effect:BOLT_OR_BEAM:COLD:-10

And how to define the max range for a spell, currently i see only TOUCH or BOLT_BEAM?
I was going to suggest you read the documentation at the top of the file, but all it says is:
Quote:
effect:effect:parameter (if needed):parameter (if needed)
So, uh, good question! It might be a modifier of the chance that you get a beam instead of a bolt?

I would hazard a guess that the max range, assuming it's possible to control, is set via a "param" line, but those are also not very well-documented yet.
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Old January 13, 2018, 15:27   #197
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new mage class, working title: wizard

Ok, i have thought about how to design or overwork an arcane caster class and about spell distribution and number of books. Just to let you know Nick, i am updating the mage class with the rogue in mind as hybrid class.

+ I have found a solution for not having the light spells available, i will give an early infravision spell instead, that also increases galadriel phials value because that holds the light spell
+ I have a damage development in mind, which starts with melee-combat for the first spell, then improves to the elemental bolts and finally mana bolt / mana storm
+ i have 9 books, 3 in town, then DL 1, 15, 30, 40, 60, 90
+ rangers get nature magic so elemental brand is not in the mage list anymore
+ enchant armor and enchant weapon is light magic to my understanding, since priest and paladin are both more combat orientated
+ mages do not use pickaxes .... so i will have an arcane version of stone to mud in the spell list, eventually even two: a low level touch and a high level bolt version (this spell is too important for sneaky types which pick their fights)

I will come up with the complete list as soon as i have it done in the class.txt file and testplayed it a while.

But i kindly ask you as maintainer Nick, to give me the OK for that. I don't want to do all the work and then finally you say something like: but i don't like it or i got no time to update the files or something like that.

I am willing to do the work for mage and rogue (arcane magic). But only if i know the time and work will not be wasted.

Edit: My first try to create a burning hands spell with
effect:TOUCH:FIRE
dice:4d4

failed with an parse error. So i either need a documentation of what is possible or i can only use existing syntaxes and replace level / mana / damage / type etc.
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Old January 13, 2018, 21:40   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
But i kindly ask you as maintainer Nick, to give me the OK for that. I don't want to do all the work and then finally you say something like: but i don't like it or i got no time to update the files or something like that.

I am willing to do the work for mage and rogue (arcane magic). But only if i know the time and work will not be wasted.
All right, here's the situation as I see it.

Angband is a community game; it started as a fork of Moria by some university students in the early 90's, and has since had a series of maintainers (sometimes a team of them). This is not really an official position - it kind of comes about through community agreement, or be handing on by the previous one, or some combination. Currently, that's me.

Angband also has a long history of people altering the game to play the way they prefer it; sometimes they name this version and put it out for others to play, and we call that a variant. There is also a tradition of people giving their opinions on the current state of the game, or making suggestions, or submitting code changes, which the maintainer then gets to act on or not.

My attitude to this last one, at least in the case of big changes, has been to discuss on these forums, and usually to go along with the consensus of opinion. Some of the big changes (curses, for example) have not had a lot of discussion, but I have put them out as a feature branch to see if people really hate them, or if not can help with improvements.

The current feature branch on magic is the result of a long discussion with multiple people on the direction for spellcasting. In that there was broad agreement (or at least, not broad disagreement) for the general idea of reducing the number of spells and books, and making spellcasting realms a bit more distinct and coherent. So what I have been doing in this thread is putting out early versions of classes as I have them ready, and asking for testing and feedback.

Now, you have been very helpful with the testing and feedback, but you're also fairly clearly unhappy with the general direction that I am taking. Given that I'm developing Angband on behalf of the community, you have some say in that, but so do all the people who have agreed with the current direction (either by helping to develop it, or by tacitly going along with it).

So in short, you're most welcome to develop mage and rogue classes the way you think they should be, but at this stage I'm going to stick with 5-6 books for pure spellcasters and (for mages) roughly the type of spells that are currently in place. I am very interested in practical difficulties, but not in a change of philosophy - unless there's consensus from the community that my current approach is wrong.

I'm very happy to help you with developing your own classes, and you are most welcome to publish those in any way you like, but as you've described them they won't be going into the main game.

I hope that clarifies things
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Old January 14, 2018, 01:11   #199
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ooooh boy do i like the druid.

at first i was like, WTF, Nick, you don't even give me a dagger?? *mumble mumble* and i was about to die to a kobold so i told myself, "might as well try this weird spell here, Shape Of Fox, see what it does".
Woha, +5 speed base? yes please.

can't wait to see what comes next.
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Old January 14, 2018, 01:42   #200
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thx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I hope that clarifies things
Thank you, it does - and then i won't come up with an overwork because that is a waste of time.

I have thought a lot about how to balance and distribute spells now. And i am convinced that you can not handle it well with 5 or 6 books only. From my point of view you are ruining the game - even tho i can understand that a coherent magic realms setting would be something nice to have.

But even more important is playability and balanced game mechanics.

You are not finished yet, ok, but i fail to see how you could achieve that later on. I don't like the reduction of books. I think the opposite should happen. I am very frustrated to see one of my favorite games going that way.
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