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Old August 15, 2007, 00:56   #1
TJA
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Angband Variant without random levels?

Hello,
beginning to have a look at roguelikes again - after years - i notice that Vanilla Angband recreates all levels every time every time we visit a level.
This may be usefull for getting XP and equipment, but i realy, realy dislike it.

So, my question is, if there is a variant - or maybe compile option - that allows for levels to be generated only ONE time and then saved for each future visits with the same character and game.

I know that this is true for Nethack and some variants, but i seem to remember such a behavior in an *band somewhere ...

Any idea?
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Old August 15, 2007, 02:01   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJA View Post
So, my question is, if there is a variant - or maybe compile option - that allows for levels to be generated only ONE time and then saved for each future visits with the same character and game.

I know that this is true for Nethack and some variants, but i seem to remember such a behavior in an *band somewhere ...

Any idea?
Entroband/Hengband have this to some extent - when you go down stairs and then back up the same stairs the level will be the same. I'm not sure whether taking different up stairs wipes the previous up level or not.
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Old August 15, 2007, 12:05   #3
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I know that this is true for Nethack and some variants, but i seem to remember such a behavior in an *band somewhere ...

Any idea?
I think the Tk graphical versions of Angband and variant(s) had persistent levels, but I might be confusing them with something else. Personally though, I can't help thinking that if you hate random levels you're playing the wrong game.
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Old August 15, 2007, 12:13   #4
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I love random levels, but i like a consistent world

I find it quite strange to go down and up a ladder to find the world changed

Levels should be created randomly, of course - but sure not change again and again with ups and downs on a ladder.

This completely removes any "exploring the dungeon" feeling for me ...

I never liked nethack and it´s variants (because of this, i used to play angband earlier), but i always wanted random but saved levels for angband


Thanx for your replies!
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Old August 15, 2007, 14:00   #5
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Originally Posted by ajps View Post
I think the Tk graphical versions of Angband and variant(s) had persistent levels, but I might be confusing them with something else. Personally though, I can't help thinking that if you hate random levels you're playing the wrong game.
I certainly remember that in ZTK, levels were persistent - for the purposes of recalling only - until a save/reload or until the shops refreshed. I think it was meant to give you a chance with quest floors if you didn't have reinforcements set.

One thing to remember in angband is that you don't go up/down stairs - you go up/down a "maze of staircases" - being unable to reach the same place twice is a very large convention of the game. What's the point in Draebor sinking you away from that OOD longsword(4d5) if you can just nip back up the stairs? You should read the description of the dungeon in the online help files for a greater understanding, assuming it's still in there.

Some variants (ToME eg) have a persistent levels option, but I haven't tested their function.
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Old August 15, 2007, 17:01   #6
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I think it would be enough to search a way to go back upstairs and find everything as before

But if ToME has an option, i will look at that too!

I know about Angband, as i used to play it already - but still, thiese always randomly new levels are just not my taste

Thanx for your reply!


P.S. I am playing already - it´s so addictive ...
Just a small test-character (Half-Troll Warrior)

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Old August 16, 2007, 03:18   #7
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Entroband/Hengband have this to some extent - when you go down stairs and then back up the same stairs the level will be the same. I'm not sure whether taking different up stairs wipes the previous up level or not.
I'm playing Entroband 1.7.1 right now. It will remember the level that goes with each stair. I just recalled to level 7, went up to 6, up to 5, down to 6 using different stairs (got a different level 6), and then all the way back to 7 by reversing my path and I got the same level for the particulr set of stairs that I took. I saw the first level 6 again. (I hope that made sense.)
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Old August 16, 2007, 05:55   #8
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Thanx, this is what i like
Donīt know Entroband but will have a look at it!
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Old August 16, 2007, 23:47   #9
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Heng/Entro dungeons are semi permanent. The way it works is simple: every dungeon trip, it will remember the levels as you encoiunter them. So if you go down to level 1, then level 2, and back the same stairs up to 1 again you will end up in the same level, the same way you left it but possibly with some additional enemies due to respawning. Taking an alternative way up will send you to a different level 1, but you can still (if you remember the route) go back to level 2 and back up the first stairs to enter the first level 1 again. Returning to the surface or casting an alter reality spell wipes all maps.

A very cool part about this is that if you fall down a trap door, you can sometimes find a way back up to the level you fell down from. This can be very handy if you tripped on a trap in a vault! It can also be a convenience to find a (relatively) safe route back up if you don't have a recall scroll. In all, I love this design
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Old August 17, 2007, 00:53   #10
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Although this thinking has something to reccomend it (eg realism ) I personally think it takes something away from angband (eg difficulty ).

Its kind of like playing Nethack, where you can return to floors, make stashes etc, but having the option to re-roll floors you don't like.
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