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Old April 24, 2012, 07:58   #11
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
Thanks for the offer! I'm planning to start marketing the game for a wider roguelike audience once the next version, Halls of Mist, is "ready". Having a deb and rpm would be helpful at that point. Learning more about Debian is fun, too.

I compile the game with make -f Makefile.std install.
Ok, so making a deb should be nice and easy - you just use 'make -f Makefile.std' in your debian/rules, and then use debhelper to do the 'install' bits for you (moving stuff into the right places). Start with the new maintainer's guide - it looks long but is actually nicely chunked up.
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Having .deb would be even more useful if Mist code was under GPL. Sadly, I have no idea how close it is to being GPL. I can ask Eytan of course. But Ey was based on Vanilla Angband 2.9.3, and that codebase may include lots of mysterious non-GPL stuff...
I'm pretty sure that Eytan put his own code under the GPL (since he contributed to the GPL version of V) - but it should be easy enough to contact him to confirm this. That just leaves any bits hungover from earlier versions - but almost everything had been put under the GPL. The missing people are listed here, along with what they contributed. I don't know how much work it would be to make Halls of Mist GPL-clean, but it might be worth trying before you release a deb/rpm.
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I'm not really going to spend time on graphics. Mist is just a hobby and my own personal favorite game; nowadays I'm playing more than coding. I want to concentrate on doing fun things. I love ASCII, and working with graphics would feel like work. Furthermore, my codebase is so antiquated that it would feel like reinventing the wheel.
Don't worry, I wasn't urging you to support SDL, just reassuring you that the work is not in the packaging of it! I think text-only roguelikes are a fine thing, and look forward to trying it.
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The only interface thing that really bothers me is the message line. My playtesting friend is very annoyed at having to press space all the time. He's bugging me to double the line.
Surely the solution to that is the easy_more option? If your version doesn't have it, it's only a few lines of code to add in. (Or if you want to get more sophisticated, look at message handling in Un.)
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Old April 24, 2012, 08:43   #12
Mikko Lehtinen
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Thanks a lot for your help.

The combination of GPL and .deb sounds wonderful. It's might be worth the effort for most variants out there!

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Surely the solution to that is the easy_more option? If your version doesn't have it, it's only a few lines of code to add in. (Or if you want to get more sophisticated, look at message handling in Un.)
I really like what Un does. For the time being, easy_more is a good idea.
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Old April 24, 2012, 09:34   #13
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Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
Thanks a lot for your help.

The combination of GPL and .deb sounds wonderful. It's might be worth the effort for most variants out there!
Good luck with it - feel free to PM me if you get stuck (or drop in to #angband-dev on freenode if you want to talk to someone in real time).
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Old April 25, 2012, 19:51   #14
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Then your best bet is not to compile anything and stick with your distribution's official repositories. They are better tested, and compiled/packaged by competent programmers who know and care about compatibility issues and vulnerabilities.
Sorry, I meant that when compiling a program, I find it more important to maintain the system integrity and stability (rather than tweak the program). The Ubuntu repositories lack several open source games, and I'd just like to make them work without wrecking my system
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What you heard is either FUD or stories from 15 years ago, when you had to recompile the kernel to get your sound card working (if you were lucky).
The article appeared only six years ago, and on a Ubuntu wiki.
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Nowadays, [...] compiling from source = lots of dependencies and version conflicts to care about; do it only if what you're looking for is not in the repos.
Even if it's just a game? In that case I better try out live CDs and VMs, like Mikko suggested.
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Old April 25, 2012, 20:36   #15
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Originally Posted by caruso View Post
Sorry, I meant that when compiling a program, I find it more important to maintain the system integrity and stability (rather than tweak the program). The Ubuntu repositories lack several open source games, and I'd just like to make them work without wrecking my system
Ok, agreed, I get your point. Sometimes you can find games on independent repositories which do little harm to the system, unless they are really obscure ones. But sometimes it is a bet which one will do the least damage to your system between compiling and adding extra repositories which try to replace stuff around.

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The article appeared only six years ago, and on a Ubuntu wiki.
Here I am missing something... which article?

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Even if it's just a game? In that case I better try out live CDs and VMs, like Mikko suggested.
For most games compiling from source is safe, although you need some practice to parse the error messages and figure out that the solution to your problems is, for instance, installing some packages named libsdl1.2-font-dev.
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Old April 25, 2012, 20:45   #16
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I take backup images of my system with Clonezilla live CD and a portable hard drive. It's easy, and it allows me to be much less paranoid about installing new programs.

I always take backup images of the whole drive. But Clonezilla gives me an option to restore only the root partition if I want. That gets rids off all the problematic programs while keeping my home partition safe.

If you like, you could buy two identical hard disks, and use one of them for testing purposes.
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Old April 25, 2012, 20:53   #17
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Here I am missing something... which article?
An article telling about precompiled programs from outside the official repositories that initially work alright but, because of broken dependencies and things like that, wreak havoc when you upgrade your Linux distribution.

Again, thanks everyone

Last edited by caruso; April 25, 2012 at 21:08.
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Old April 26, 2012, 06:46   #18
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Compiling yourself isn't inherently safer unless you're savvy enough to actually prowl through tons of code. I certainly aren't.

As far as I figure, debian packages are how computers were meant to work
It does serve you well to be at least a bit cautious about what PPA's you add to a system.

Of course, in linux world, the large range of options will help make an exploit harder to succeed. What works on a debian system may not affect something based on RPMs and a Gnome weakness would be pointless in KDE, f.x.
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Old April 26, 2012, 22:20   #19
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Originally Posted by caruso View Post
An article telling about precompiled programs from outside the official repositories that initially work alright but, because of broken dependencies and things like that, wreak havoc when you upgrade your Linux distribution.
I am interested in finding out what and how happened --- can you share a link?
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Old April 28, 2012, 17:23   #20
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I am interested in finding out what and how happened --- can you share a link?
Here it is. However, contrary to my first understanding, the problems assert themselves not only during, but also before the system upgrade (installation of additional programs made impossible etc.).
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