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Old April 17, 2011, 01:35   #1
meJustmeNotyou
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Level feelings, yeah, again

I made an account just to ask this. (cool way to add an account by the way, having to remember what he said at the gate, or wiki it).


Anyway, Level feelings. When I started playing Angband years ago (normal version) the level feelings worked perfectly fine for the special feelings. Now I've been playing a week or so and I read that the feelings don't work worth squat (basicaly).


So I read the threads I could find on what the problem is but not all my questions have been answered.


Why did something work once upon a time and then later additions to the game have been made and now "they are broken" ?


Can someone explain the technical (not too technical) reason why what once worked no longer works ?


And why what no longer works can't just have recoded into the program a simple option for people like me who liked playing with special level feelings and lost artifacts ?


Like, just say if artifact plopped on ground at creation of level, level feeling = special ? Even if you think it's "lame" there are people like me that play the game 20% just for such special level feeling///artifact lost///gameplay... and seems it would be extremely simple to code.


I like the fact that the development of this game is still alive and people like the game but, I just wish this was something others would have "fixed" already.


Lastly I know from reading many of your responses to level feelings you have all kinds of ideas on things that you think level feelings should pertain to and that's all fine and honestly i am "not" interrested in such replies here.


You can have your ultra advanced level feeling ideas and stuff.


I wouldn't mind playing with some of the ideas., but I just want a simple "if then" coded option for people like me too, on the side of anything else that may be cool for another day.


Thanks... and if it's harder than I think, or if this is an old and already answered topic, sorry. I did search the threads.


I want a new version with just this added tomorrow, haha. I miss the artifacts (and whatever else but always an artifact) triggering this special feeling.... a very fun part of the game that I hate "broken".


Just my 2 cents on what I wish the game had to offer.


Later all who read this far. (and if i suck at searching and it's already fixed... i'll eat a slime mold).
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Old April 17, 2011, 01:43   #2
Derakon
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You can get special level feelings and lost artifacts back. Just hit '=' when creating your character and turn off preserve mode.

The problem is, and has always been (so far as I'm aware, back even to the 2.4 frog-knows days), that "special" level feelings don't apply just to artifacts, but also to all kinds of other crap including pits. In particular, jelly pits. Just because you get a special level feeling doesn't mean there's anything there worth bothering with.
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Old April 17, 2011, 01:46   #3
Max Stats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
You can get special level feelings and lost artifacts back. Just hit '=' when creating your character and turn off preserve mode.

The problem is, and has always been (so far as I'm aware, back even to the 2.4 frog-knows days), that "special" level feelings don't apply just to artifacts, but also to all kinds of other crap including pits. In particular, jelly pits. Just because you get a special level feeling doesn't mean there's anything there worth bothering with.
Isn't no-preserve going away at some point in the future (if it hasn't already in the nightlies)?
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Old April 17, 2011, 03:59   #4
Timo Pietilš
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Isn't no-preserve going away at some point in the future (if it hasn't already in the nightlies)?
I certainly hope not. It is fun to play with risk of losing artifacts every now and then.
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Old April 17, 2011, 08:40   #5
Magnate
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
I certainly hope not. It is fun to play with risk of losing artifacts every now and then.
I agree with Timo. EDIT: Having caught up on IRC, I'm fairly confident that non-preserve isn't going anywhere yet.

Last edited by Magnate; April 17, 2011 at 09:06.
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Old April 17, 2011, 13:38   #6
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I agree with Timo. EDIT: Having caught up on IRC, I'm fairly confident that non-preserve isn't going anywhere yet.
OK, I just thought I read one of the maintainers say awhile back that he wanted preserve to be standard and remove the option. But even if he did, I suppose they are allowed to change their minds!
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Old April 17, 2011, 17:10   #7
ulrichvonbek
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For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.
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Old April 18, 2011, 15:34   #8
meJustmeNotyou
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hey

i didn't mean to offend anyone how i wrote this... if you took something i said wrong, sorry. I just throw words out when i type, but yeah, i'll pay more attention to maybe coming off the wrong way.

I really just wanted to not have people wasting their time explaining things to me I already read elsewhere.

Which, i have to say i thought for sure after reading the threads i did, was saying that special etc etc wasn't working, at all.

Anyway... I'm glad it is working so.... thanks for responding....

And on a side note to one of teh dev people, I do have a bug to report (off i go)....

(not sure if i have to eat the slime mold like i said but whatever, here goes)
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Old April 19, 2011, 00:26   #9
Spacebux
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This Place Looks Reasonably Safe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichvonbek View Post
For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.
Yes - I'm sure there are players out there who feel a mob-pit is something to get excited about. But, the level feelings ought to be separated from mobs---completely.

Perhaps a better way to do it would be to separate level feelings into Item and Mob feelings. But, I personally think feelings ought to be vague at best. I hate having "superb" levels turn into real disappointments when no artifacts turn up... and just another copy of Kelek's appears to have spiked the level feeling.

If one made level feelings separated mob/item counters, that would be great. Making the feelings in general vague, harder to gauge whether its a great level or not, would also be an improvement. That would greatly reduce so-called stair-scumming (or Alter Reality-scumming by the Priests).

--SpaceBux--
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Old April 19, 2011, 00:44   #10
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Originally Posted by Spacebux View Post
Making the feelings in general vague, harder to gauge whether its a great level or not, would also be an improvement.
Are the current level feelings insufficiently vague, then?

Level feelings are not solely an indication of loot quality, nor should they be unless we somehow find a way to eliminate scumming altogether. Otherwise players will simply scum until they get told there's something awesome on the level.

I guess my fix to level feelings would be to change them from sum(feeling influences) to max(feeling influences). The level feeling is simply the feeling given by the single largest influence on the level. If that's a lesser vault, so be it. If that's an unusually OOD item in the lesser vault, then likewise. If it's Omarax showing up 1000' out of depth, etc. As I see it, this would reduce the "superb" inflation I've seen lately, which I must assume is caused by the presence of a large number of slightly unusual things. It would however have next to no impact on boring levels.
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