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Old April 17, 2011, 17:10   #11
ulrichvonbek
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For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.
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Old April 17, 2011, 22:44   #12
Magnate
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Originally Posted by Max Stats View Post
OK, I just thought I read one of the maintainers say awhile back that he wanted preserve to be standard and remove the option. But even if he did, I suppose they are allowed to change their minds!
You did, they did, and they did.
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Old April 17, 2011, 23:19   #13
Max Stats
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You did, they did, and they did.
Got it, got it, and got it!
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Old April 18, 2011, 15:34   #14
meJustmeNotyou
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hey

i didn't mean to offend anyone how i wrote this... if you took something i said wrong, sorry. I just throw words out when i type, but yeah, i'll pay more attention to maybe coming off the wrong way.

I really just wanted to not have people wasting their time explaining things to me I already read elsewhere.

Which, i have to say i thought for sure after reading the threads i did, was saying that special etc etc wasn't working, at all.

Anyway... I'm glad it is working so.... thanks for responding....

And on a side note to one of teh dev people, I do have a bug to report (off i go)....

(not sure if i have to eat the slime mold like i said but whatever, here goes)
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Old April 19, 2011, 00:26   #15
Spacebux
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This Place Looks Reasonably Safe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichvonbek View Post
For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.
Yes - I'm sure there are players out there who feel a mob-pit is something to get excited about. But, the level feelings ought to be separated from mobs---completely.

Perhaps a better way to do it would be to separate level feelings into Item and Mob feelings. But, I personally think feelings ought to be vague at best. I hate having "superb" levels turn into real disappointments when no artifacts turn up... and just another copy of Kelek's appears to have spiked the level feeling.

If one made level feelings separated mob/item counters, that would be great. Making the feelings in general vague, harder to gauge whether its a great level or not, would also be an improvement. That would greatly reduce so-called stair-scumming (or Alter Reality-scumming by the Priests).

--SpaceBux--
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Old April 19, 2011, 00:44   #16
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Making the feelings in general vague, harder to gauge whether its a great level or not, would also be an improvement.
Are the current level feelings insufficiently vague, then?

Level feelings are not solely an indication of loot quality, nor should they be unless we somehow find a way to eliminate scumming altogether. Otherwise players will simply scum until they get told there's something awesome on the level.

I guess my fix to level feelings would be to change them from sum(feeling influences) to max(feeling influences). The level feeling is simply the feeling given by the single largest influence on the level. If that's a lesser vault, so be it. If that's an unusually OOD item in the lesser vault, then likewise. If it's Omarax showing up 1000' out of depth, etc. As I see it, this would reduce the "superb" inflation I've seen lately, which I must assume is caused by the presence of a large number of slightly unusual things. It would however have next to no impact on boring levels.
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Old April 19, 2011, 00:49   #17
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I guess my fix to level feelings would be to change them from sum(feeling influences) to max(feeling influences). The level feeling is simply the feeling given by the single largest influence on the level. If that's a lesser vault, so be it. If that's an unusually OOD item in the lesser vault, then likewise. If it's Omarax showing up 1000' out of depth, etc. As I see it, this would reduce the "superb" inflation I've seen lately, which I must assume is caused by the presence of a large number of slightly unusual things. It would however have next to no impact on boring levels.
that's an interesting idea, although I think it might be too far the other way. Perhaps a compromise that looks like sqrt( sum (item_rating^2)) or cube root ( sum ( item_rating^3)) would help somewhat.
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Old April 19, 2011, 15:07   #18
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that's an interesting idea, although I think it might be too far the other way. Perhaps a compromise that looks like sqrt( sum (item_rating^2)) or cube root ( sum ( item_rating^3)) would help somewhat.
As long as the feeling refers to ITEMS and does not factor in mobs or vaults, good. I would much rather see treasure feelings separated from danger feelings - "you feel a sense of impending doom..." for a level with several OoD mobs, e.g. "You feel the need to update your last will & testament." You know, something that describes the level of mobs one might encounter on the level.

My idea about ambiguity goes on to suggest that even a "good" or "very good" feeling could turn up an artifact type treasure. I would like to see more ambiguity in generating the level feelings such that they are less reliable in determining what might actually be on the level.

What a pleasant surprise it might be to find that "impending doom" was just a fluctuation in the RNG and a wave of blue icky things was the worst atrocity on the level? Comparatively, players would have less angst against levels that were supposed "superb" and found little to support such a feeling. I.e., fewer gripes.

Feelings are just supposed to be feelings, not news broadcasts.
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Old April 19, 2011, 16:11   #19
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As long as the feeling refers to ITEMS and does not factor in mobs or vaults, good.
As I noted earlier, I strongly doubt this will happen as it encourages players to scum for good level feelings. Why would you bother exploring a level that you know doesn't have any good loot on the floor?
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Old April 19, 2011, 16:35   #20
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I don't get the kvetching about level feelings not being sufficiently vague. I have explored plenty of 'superb' levels to find nothing to get worked up about -- only a jelly pit and a vault with no artifacts. Similarly, I've explored a 'good' level and found an artifact on the floor.

That seems pretty darned vague to me.
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