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Old March 28, 2009, 14:47   #1
TJS
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It breathes...you don't

I've been playing Angband a fair old while, but I've never really understood how breaths work.

I was playing earlier with ESP and I caught sight of an ancient multi-hued dragon in a corridor around 20 odd squares away, with around 10 monsters between me and him. Anyway he breathes and I die copping around 400-500 worth of damage (I think).

Do breaths not falloff with range? And do monsters not absorb some of the damage? And finally, can monsters see through other monsters to get a clear line of sight?
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Old March 28, 2009, 15:31   #2
Pete Mack
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Breaths do not attenuate in V. (They do in many other variants.) Intervening monsters take damage, but do not reduce it. And monsters can always see past other monsters.
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Old March 28, 2009, 15:35   #3
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Breaths do not attenuate in V. (They do in many other variants.) Intervening monsters take damage, but do not reduce it. And monsters can always see past other monsters.
Ah I see thanks, I suspected this was the case. Does it seem a little bit unfair?

Obviously in my example it was my fault since I had ESP and knew the dragon was there, but if I hadn't and was playing a warrior without any detections, I would feel a bit annoyed that I was killed by a monster that I had absolutely no chance of seeing before it breathed on me.
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Old March 29, 2009, 00:08   #4
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Originally Posted by TJS View Post
Ah I see thanks, I suspected this was the case. Does it seem a little bit unfair?

Obviously in my example it was my fault since I had ESP and knew the dragon was there, but if I hadn't and was playing a warrior without any detections, I would feel a bit annoyed that I was killed by a monster that I had absolutely no chance of seeing before it breathed on me.
Lesson: always have detection! I don't see it as unfair at all, at least given that most similar-style player attacks operate in the same way. You wouldn't want your wand of light to stop at the first orc, now would you?

What's unfair is that the monsters are always aiming at you, even if there's an angel and demon in the same room...
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Old March 29, 2009, 03:41   #5
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I don't see it as unfair at all, at least given that most similar-style player attacks operate in the same way. You wouldn't want your wand of light to stop at the first orc, now would you?
There are beam attacks, and there are ball attacks, and there are cone attacks, and there are breath attacks.

If I was designing it, the breath would be like a ball attack that you aim with a direction, not at a spot. So, the first monster it hit, it would explode there in a ball. Or you could make it an attenuated cone attack and I wouldn't mind either, but intermediaries should block the cone [except for wave effects].

The current breath system does not make sense to me given how I think of dragon breaths. In that sense, I agree that it is unfair. Note that the player's main attack that does not attenuate is the branded arrow, and that is stopped by intermediaries. Beam attacks are generally weaker attacks, not the strongest attacks, if you want to start arguing about "consistency".

I am not suggesting that the current system should be changed. That's a gameplay decision, and there are arguments both ways. However, IMO the current system is inconsistent and could easily be viewed as "unfair". I think when you 'l'ook at a monster, you should see actual numbers in the description. E.g "the Hell Wyrm can breathe to hit you for 1166 points of fire damage at this range".
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Old March 29, 2009, 04:34   #6
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Ah I see thanks, I suspected this was the case. Does it seem a little bit unfair?
Whether it does or not, this is what the game is all about. Everything up to this point was just 'tutorial mode'...

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Old March 30, 2009, 20:47   #7
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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
There are beam attacks, and there are ball attacks, and there are cone attacks, and there are breath attacks.

If I was designing it, the breath would be like a ball attack that you aim with a direction, not at a spot. So, the first monster it hit, it would explode there in a ball. Or you could make it an attenuated cone attack and I wouldn't mind either, but intermediaries should block the cone [except for wave effects].

The current breath system does not make sense to me given how I think of dragon breaths. In that sense, I agree that it is unfair. Note that the player's main attack that does not attenuate is the branded arrow, and that is stopped by intermediaries. Beam attacks are generally weaker attacks, not the strongest attacks, if you want to start arguing about "consistency".

I am not suggesting that the current system should be changed. That's a gameplay decision, and there are arguments both ways. However, IMO the current system is inconsistent and could easily be viewed as "unfair". I think when you 'l'ook at a monster, you should see actual numbers in the description. E.g "the Hell Wyrm can breathe to hit you for 1166 points of fire damage at this range".
I guess the idea is that you are always on your guard and have to detect every couple of steps, which is fair enough really. I just get a bit bored detecting all the time, which means I tend to get killed around dlvl 75 most games.

Also I tend to play warriors who only have access to detect evil most of the time. Are evil creatures the only ones with these high damage breath attacks?

I agree with you about it being desirable able to see the numbers on monsters. There are so many monsters that keeping track of who does what is a bit beyond me (especially as my save game file keeps seeming to being corrupted when starting a new game). I just got killed by a gas breath by a pit demon playing as a kobold warrior. I thought kobolds were totally resistant to poison, but I guess not.
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Old March 30, 2009, 21:03   #8
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You might want to take a look at the monster breath spoiler here:
http://www.geocities.com/will_asher/...ry/mbreath.txt

Is there an Angband spoiler site I can submit this to?
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Old March 30, 2009, 21:42   #9
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You might want to take a look at the monster breath spoiler here:
http://www.geocities.com/will_asher/...ry/mbreath.txt

Is there an Angband spoiler site I can submit this to?
Send it to Hugo Kornelis, he's Mr Spoiler for V. If you can't contact him directly, post your link to rgra and he'll pick it up.
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Old March 31, 2009, 00:51   #10
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Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
You might want to take a look at the monster breath spoiler here:
http://www.geocities.com/will_asher/...ry/mbreath.txt

Is there an Angband spoiler site I can submit this to?
I almost passed this link by without taking a look. I'm glad I decided to click. That's some top-notch information.
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