Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 17, 2015, 05:23   #11
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,047
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by debo View Post
Is ranger melee worse than rogue melee?
Since they can both get 5 blows/round, this basically boils down to their innate accuracy gains. Rangers get a base 56 skill and +3 per level; rogues get a base 60 skill and +4 per level. For comparison, paladins are 68/+3.5, warriors are 70/+4.5, priests 48/+2, and mages 34/+1.5.

So yeah, rogues have slightly better melee than paladins do (eventually), and certainly better than rangers. Rangers also only get +4 to their hit die, while rogues get +6, for an average 1 more HP per level.

But really the key I think is that players are far more likely to play rogues as "slightly weaker warriors who can eventually learn to cast spells" while they try to play rangers more as true hybrids from the get-go. That means allocating your stats poorly: having high STR, DEX, and INT at the beginning of the game is impossible, so they end up deficient in all three and being bad casters and bad melee fighters.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17, 2015, 07:35   #12
Raccoon
Scout
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 38
Raccoon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
But really the key I think is that players are far more likely to play rogues as "slightly weaker warriors who can eventually learn to cast spells" while they try to play rangers more as true hybrids from the get-go. That means allocating your stats poorly: having high STR, DEX, and INT at the beginning of the game is impossible, so they end up deficient in all three and being bad casters and bad melee fighters.
Oh yeah, that's how I used to play them, too. Back when I was young and stupid and tried to melee vaults to death with a high elf ranger. :P
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17, 2015, 11:40   #13
fph
Knight
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Berlin / Italy
Posts: 565
fph is on a distinguished road
Derakon suggested recently to change the ranger bonus from additional shots to additional multiplier. This would help also with making rangers more newbie-friendly, since it reduces the impact of arrow management.
__________________
Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.
--
You read a scroll labeled 'lol gtfo' of Teleport Level.
fph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2015, 01:27   #14
zog
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 9
zog is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post
I die with rangers, and win with warriors/mages/rogues, so yeah, ranger is definitely not a slam dunk. Besides, if you find a nice Sling of Buckland in the endgame, anybody can "play at" ranger for a bit. I actually did at least half of the damage vs. Morgoth as a gnome mage with a SoB and HM shots...

What's so good about a Sling of Buckland versus, say, Bard or a nice Heavy Crossbow of Extra Might? The multiplier is only x3 and the shots weigh like bricks.

The only time I've ever used a sling as my main missile for a prolonged period was in a recent game when a paladin stumbled upon a Sling of Extra Shots at 500'; it was immensely helpful at that level, but having to carry a lot of shots really weighed me down (literally).
zog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2015, 01:54   #15
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,047
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by zog View Post
What's so good about a Sling of Buckland versus, say, Bard or a nice Heavy Crossbow of Extra Might? The multiplier is only x3 and the shots weigh like bricks.

The only time I've ever used a sling as my main missile for a prolonged period was in a recent game when a paladin stumbled upon a Sling of Extra Shots at 500'; it was immensely helpful at that level, but having to carry a lot of shots really weighed me down (literally).
You can find Buckland slings with +2 shots; 3 shots/round makes up for a lot of downside. Potentially you can find x4 Buckland slings with +2 shots, which is just ridiculous.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21, 2015, 16:51   #16
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,460
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by zog View Post
What's so good about a Sling of Buckland versus, say, Bard or a nice Heavy Crossbow of Extra Might? The multiplier is only x3 and the shots weigh like bricks.

The only time I've ever used a sling as my main missile for a prolonged period was in a recent game when a paladin stumbled upon a Sling of Extra Shots at 500'; it was immensely helpful at that level, but having to carry a lot of shots really weighed me down (literally).
In the hands of all but a Ranger, a high-powered Sling of Buckland (i.e., +2 might, +2 shots, with high to-hit and damage adds) together with Shots of Holy Might is one of, if not the, most powerful weapon in the game. Armed with those Morgoth goes down fast. The shots cut through him like he's tissue paper.

A Ranger would prefer Belthronding or a high-powered Lothlorien bow with Holy Might Arrows. With the Ranger's extra 2 shots he can outperform the best Buckland slings.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2015, 13:14   #17
PowerWyrm
Veteran
 
PowerWyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,141
PowerWyrm is on a distinguished road
Mithril Shots of Holy Might are as rare as the One Ring though...
__________________
PWMAngband variant maintainer - check http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9 to learn more about this new variant!
PowerWyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2015, 13:34   #18
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,080
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Mithril Shots of Holy Might are as rare as the One Ring though...
That would make One Ring really common. In my last game I was drowning on mithril shots and some of them were Holy Might. I was using HXbow of extra shots and later Lothlorien bow so no use to me.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2015, 14:23   #19
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,460
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Mithril Shots of Holy Might are as rare as the One Ring though...
While I don't find them quite that rare, I do admit they are rare. Much rarer than any other ammunition. But, people keep thinking that Buckland slings are so useless when, in fact, they are very powerful.

Now if you want to talk rare, what is much rarer than The One Ring, at least for me, is a good Maggot drop....
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22, 2015, 17:08   #20
Raccoon
Scout
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 38
Raccoon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
Now if you want to talk rare, what is much rarer than The One Ring, at least for me, is a good Maggot drop....
I've had a few 'good' Maggot drops, but only in the sense that a pair of Sandals [1, +2] is better than nothing when I am just starting the game. I've never gotten anything off of Maggot that would last me more than a few levels once I start to dive.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fingolfin the High Elf Ranger decoy AAR 1 January 8, 2012 02:11
Lief, the High-Elf Ranger Wisp AAR 30 December 7, 2011 16:37
Which spells will I use as a High-Elf Ranger? Nemesis Vanilla 44 April 9, 2010 01:34
YACD: Another High-Elf Ranger Diogenes AAR 14 October 28, 2007 13:21
YACD High-elf Ranger Parcae AAR 26 October 14, 2007 12:29


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.