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Old February 5, 2010, 20:49   #1
PowerDiver
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less radical wishlist

Here are some wishes that I believe are not variant level, but perhaps they are and I am just biased. In no particular order

(1) auto repeat melee and missiles until disturbed, allows fractional blows
(2) adders add -- any additive change to a maximum value changes the current value equally additively, such as hp from con changing
(3) separated charges on stacks of charged items
(4) squelching any item possible, gets any other item dominated by given item
(5) money squelching [pick up when stepped on, but don't see it cluttering the screen]
(6) no quality reduction from curse scrolls other than the curse
(7) multiple options for running down corridors -- I would prefer *not* turning corners, or perhaps not stepping onto unlit spaces or something else, for the majority of time during my current games
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Old February 5, 2010, 22:40   #2
Marble Dice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
(1) auto repeat melee and missiles until disturbed, allows fractional blows
I think some form of this is planned.

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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
(2) adders add -- any additive change to a maximum value changes the current value equally additively, such as hp from con changing
Hard to argue with that.

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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
(3) separated charges on stacks of charged items
How would this be implemented? Track the charges on each item separately, but still allow them to stack, track the total charges, and always modify charges of the item with the fewest charges?

Alternatively you could assign a hard maximum number of charges to each item, and then assume the player is able to move charges back and forth at will. Destruction would destroy (total charges/num devices), dropping or selling items could assume the player would transfer as many charges as possible off the discarded item. This would be easier to implement since it wouldn't require tracking charges individually - just stack size, total charges, and the max charges per item (based on item kind). It would require a minor rework to recharging, but that's another plus IMO.

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(4) squelching any item possible, gets any other item dominated by given item
So for example if I squelch *Slay Orc*, it also implies I don't care about Slay Orc? I wonder if you could do something with ability-by-slot squelching, such as squelch all rFire, feather fall, slow digestion, and maybe telepathy on helmets only, etc?

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(5) money squelching [pick up when stepped on, but don't see it cluttering the screen]
Maybe this could be added in the squelch object by kind interface? That would probably be easy.

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(6) no quality reduction from curse scrolls other than the curse
Hopefully these guys will be re-worked soon anyway.

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(7) multiple options for running down corridors -- I would prefer *not* turning corners, or perhaps not stepping onto unlit spaces or something else, for the majority of time during my current games
Sounds like there might be some promise here, I think I would like not turning corners when I'm exploring a new corridor, or possibly not running more than a certain number of spaces at one time.
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Old February 5, 2010, 22:59   #3
PowerDiver
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[adders add]
> Hard to argue with that.

And yet the last time I suggested it in rgra it was not supported.

[separate charges]
> How would this be implemented?

I have various ideas. The cleanest approach is a quiver in every slot holding 10 separate items with same (tval,sval), but that may be too powerful. The simplest approach is to up the inventory array by a factor of 10, specify within a slot by <shift> + letter + number rather than just the letter, and UI options specifying defaults such as most charges or least charges or whatever when you choose a multiple slot just with the letter. A more complicated implementation is to implement multiple pval support, say 10 per item.

[squelch]

> So for example if I squelch *Slay Orc*, it also implies I don't care about Slay Orc?

If the dices and plusses and weights also dominated. A dagger (3d4) SlayOrc would be hard to dominate. OTOH, a dagger(3d4)[no ego](+15,+15) should dominate a dagger (1d4) slay orc (+15,+15).

> I wonder if you could do something with ability-by-slot squelching, such as squelch all rFire, feather fall, slow digestion, and maybe telepathy on helmets only, etc?

Of course squelch has to be slot specific. The big problem is the refusal to allow edit info to be used. I personally know that ego boots with FF do not have FA, but I don't know how to get the UI for that when you assume the player does not know the ego list.
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Old February 6, 2010, 02:15   #4
Marble Dice
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[adders add] And yet the last time I suggested it in rgra it was not supported.
I guess I can see where this could get messy: if you put on a +INT ring with empty mana, you'd get 30 mana, could spend it, unequip the ring to return to empty mana, put it on again, etc. A less abusable method would be to hold your current/max ratio consistent, so if you've got 1/100 hp, and you put on a +CON ring to get 50 max hp, you'd still only have 2/150 (after rounding up). But at least that way if you made changes at 100%, you'd stay at 100%.
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Old February 6, 2010, 02:32   #5
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I guess I can see where this could get messy: if you put on a +INT ring with empty mana, you'd get 30 mana, could spend it, unequip the ring to return to empty mana, put it on again, etc. A less abusable method would be to hold your current/max ratio consistent, so if you've got 1/100 hp, and you put on a +CON ring to get 50 max hp, you'd still only have 2/150 (after rounding up). But at least that way if you made changes at 100%, you'd stay at 100%.
IMO when you unequip the INT ring in your example you should drop to negative mana, with whatever implications that has currently when e.g. you cast a spell lacking sufficient mana. Possible drain to max con, unconsciousness, etc.

Take off a con ring when it is keeping you above 0 hp and you die. No big deal -- don't take it off!
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Old February 6, 2010, 03:17   #6
Netbrian
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(5) money squelching [pick up when stepped on, but don't see it cluttering the screen]
Perhaps set the game up so that if a monster dies and is going to drop gold, and there's already an adjacent stack of gold, the monster's gold drop is simply added to the amount of cash already in the stack? That would keep things cleaner.

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(6) no quality reduction from curse scrolls other than the curse
I still vote for getting rid of curse scrolls altogether. Another option would be to have it increase the quality of the weapon along with cursing it, to at least make it somewhat interesting.
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Old February 6, 2010, 03:24   #7
Pete Mack
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What about proportional additivity? You maintain the same proportion of HP/SP when your stats change, so you would keep 0 HP at one end, and max HP at the other.
NPP works this way, and I think it's pretty clean.
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Old February 6, 2010, 03:43   #8
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What about proportional additivity? You maintain the same proportion of HP/SP when your stats change, so you would keep 0 HP at one end, and max HP at the other.
NPP works this way, and I think it's pretty clean.
I just don't like it. Well, I guess I detest it. I don't know why it bugs me so much, but it does. If you made con bonuses proportional, multiplying base hp then things would be different.

If a char has 30 chp out of 40 max hp, that means perhaps he has sustained one 10 point wound and is capable of sustaining four. When he puts on con rings adding another 40 to max hp, he is now a char capable of sustaining eight 10 hp wounds who has received one 10 hp wound, thus should have 70 chp out of 80 max hp. His wound shouldn't suddenly get bigger requiring more healing to cure, as it would if you set chp to 60.

Adders should add. Multipliers should multiply. They shouldn't mix. Because it's just plain wrong.
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Old February 6, 2010, 05:05   #9
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Adders should add. Multipliers should multiply. They shouldn't mix. Because it's just plain wrong.
This.

As to the issue of abusing +int for mana. If you wield a ring that adds 30 mana, you don't get 30 mana, you have to wait for it to fill up. If you take the ring off, you go to 0/0 mana. If you put the ring back on, you're back at 0/30.

Same with hp. A ring gives +30 hp, you're at n/(n+30). you take it off, back to n/n. if you're wounded so you're at (n-x)/(n+30), and take the ring off, you're still at (n-x)/n

This makes perfect sense.
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Old February 6, 2010, 05:57   #10
Pete Mack
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On additive HP, I think we will just need to agree to disagree. I tend to think in terms of HP remaining until death, not HP from max.

And yes, I understand that this is modestly abusable by going to low HP, curing some fixed HP, then putting back all your equipment. I just don't think it's a big deal. Yes, it makes a (fixed HP) *CLW spell marginally more powerful, as you can in principle cure more HP with the same SP, but since it means having to retreat from battle to do so, it's not really exploitable.

Note that there's a similar 'abuse' with the additve model. You can put on max CON equipment (say, RoCON for RoPois or RoDam) and cure your remaining wounds to heal faster via regeneration (which heals by %HP rather than absolute), then take it off again at full HP.
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