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Old May 22, 2014, 21:27   #21
chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arendil View Post
Man, why are fast leveling, or infinity experience from a single monster issues at all? If you don't like it, then don't do it. Simple as that.
Agreed. I usually only patch exploits that I personally cannot resist, or ones that somebody asks me to do.

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Intoducing a level/experience cap depending on player location is a horrible idea.
I'm not sure you understand what we are talking about. There is no such level experience cap under consideration.

The exploit in question involves fighting a single monster in a safe situation and not killing the monster. Rather, damage the monster a bit and then rest to allow it to heal back to full hp. Then repeat. With this approach, you can gain infinite experience with zero kills. And the fix is only handful of lines of code so I'm not sure why you object?

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I'd rather see some overall balancing of races and classes. At this moment it is a horrible mess of combined ideas of several variants put together. Some classes have many interesting abilities to choose from, some, like warriors, have exactly one, meaning they are just plain boring. Or weird, like mirror-master. Some are exactly the same as in Vanilla. Or Zangband. Or whatever other inspiration it was.
Feel free to give concrete suggestions, but I'm inclined to leave the diversity and historical races/classes in play. It is sort of the whole point of this variant!
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Old May 22, 2014, 21:30   #22
UglySquirrell
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I agree, if you search long enough you will find exploits anywhere. This does not mean you have to or should use them. Farming in the tower, or granite walls for gold has been around since Hengband if i remember correctly. I just never find using those type of tactics fun. Granted i have used the farming technique to evolve my mounts a few times but i find this type of gameplay extremely boring.
I guess it really comes down to, if you don't like it don't do it. Kind of like people who save scum, it's easy to do if you know how but in the end it defeats the purpose, and cheapens the game imo.

With regards to boring classes like warriors, i believe they have there place. Some people just enjoy the vanilla style classes, and if your starting out warriors are pretty badass and can actually use devices etc. (not well). Just smashing things is fun sometimes too

As far as weird classes, i really enjoy the stranger ones. Mirror masters are actually really cool, they take a bit to set up some spells. But you can still play almost like a mage if you want.
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Old May 23, 2014, 01:57   #23
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
Feel free to give concrete suggestions, but I'm inclined to leave the diversity and historical races/classes in play. It is sort of the whole point of this variant!
Just wanted to voice my support of keeping existing classes around. The mentioned "boring" warrior? I'm certainly having fun with mine right now!

And this also goes for races.

The only point in removing such options would seem to be in "streamlining" the game - but I think that's not really a realistic goal. Let's face it - anyone playing a game like this is not going to be put off by too many classes or races or other choices.
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Old May 23, 2014, 01:57   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
I'm not sure you understand what we are talking about. There is no such level experience cap under consideration.
Actually, I was referring to the proposed XP cap in the wilderness.


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The exploit in question involves fighting a single monster in a safe situation and not killing the monster. Rather, damage the monster a bit and then rest to allow it to heal back to full hp. Then repeat. With this approach, you can gain infinite experience with zero kills. And the fix is only handful of lines of code so I'm not sure why you object?
For one thing, limiting experience gain from fighting would backfire in some other cases, like fighting a very difficult, self-healing, teleporting boss. Everyone has seen that. By the time you catch up again, enemy is healed from one star to full health. In such case, I think XP reward should be on par with added difficulty.

Second, I object, because I'm always for more freedom in gaming If someone wants to abuse some exploits, well, it's their businnes, their time, and their fun, or lack of thereof.

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Feel free to give concrete suggestions, but I'm inclined to leave the diversity and historical races/classes in play. It is sort of the whole point of this variant!
I agree that multitude of choices is fun. But there are duplicates, some funny, like you can play one Balrog as a regular race, with a class, and different one as a monster, demonic race

Also, classes for example. Basic classes from vanilla have exactly the same stats, despite obvious higher difficulty of this variant. And so on.

I spent some time wondering about possible way to rebalance races and classes, and to be honest, that task overwhelmed my measly brain just too many factors to compute.

What could be done, although that would require a lot of work, is cleaning of the code responsible for all spells/abilities/powers/whatever. Some classes constantly need spellbooks, some only to learn, some never at all. Some are under m key, some under U, some have new menus. How about a *one* way to learn and cast all spell-like abilities or techniques?
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Old May 23, 2014, 02:10   #25
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Just wanted to voice my support of keeping existing classes around. The mentioned "boring" warrior? I'm certainly having fun with mine right now!
I'm not opting to remove classes. Just to make them more interesting. Just give warrior some combat abilities, I don't know, sweep, strong blow, precise blow, maybe rush attack, maybe some war cries, whatever, and immediately it gets interesting.
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Old May 23, 2014, 03:27   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arendil View Post
I'm not opting to remove classes. Just to make them more interesting. Just give warrior some combat abilities, I don't know, sweep, strong blow, precise blow, maybe rush attack, maybe some war cries, whatever, and immediately it gets interesting.
In a game where almost every class and race is over the top, it is nice to have some vanilla classes that have limited tricks.
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Old May 23, 2014, 13:47   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arendil View Post
For one thing, limiting experience gain from fighting would backfire in some other cases, like fighting a very difficult, self-healing, teleporting boss. Everyone has seen that. By the time you catch up again, enemy is healed from one star to full health. In such case, I think XP reward should be on par with added difficulty.
These situations are meant to be an annoyance to the player, not a hidden boon. Why add disincentives to diligently tracking down your enemy? If you allowed him to heal back to full health (and this is sometimes unavoidable, I admit), then why should this be a benefit?
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Old May 23, 2014, 14:12   #28
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To follow up on debo's comment, my most fun PosChengband character to date was a ludicrously high-damage human warrior with suicidally-low AC (that ultimately got him killed).
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Old May 23, 2014, 14:23   #29
chris
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Originally Posted by Arendil View Post
I'm not opting to remove classes. Just to make them more interesting. Just give warrior some combat abilities, I don't know, sweep, strong blow, precise blow, maybe rush attack, maybe some war cries, whatever, and immediately it gets interesting.
Yes, this is exactly why there are Samurai, Maulers, Weaponmasters, etc. To make warriors less boring.
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Old May 23, 2014, 19:41   #30
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Idea: Give the Serpent a new ability. "Summon Metal Babbles" (6-12 of them.)

Alternately, make Metal Babbles breed explosively.
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