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Old June 16, 2011, 02:36   #1
Derakon
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Permanently available items

Takkaria requested a proposal on what store items should

* Always be available in stores in unlimited quantity,
* Generally be available, and
* Should occasionally be available

So, here's my go. Feel free to suggest alterations, insult my reasoning, etc. I'm just going by what's currently sold in the stores (visible by looking at store.txt, except for the general store which is special-coded), so I'm not suggesting new items or removing existing items. That could probably be done here too though.

General Store
Everything in this store should be infinitely available. Cloaks and ammo should always be nonmagical, if they aren't already.

Armoury
Current loadout is fine, though I suggest adding basic cloaks as a generally-available item.

Weaponsmith
Current loadout is fine.

Temple
Should infinitely] have the first 2 prayer books, scrolls of Light
Should generally have the second 2 prayer books; potions of Heroism and scrolls of Holy Chant (both in moderately large stacks)
Should occasionally have all hafted weapons except for the Mace of Disruption.

Alchemist
Should infinitely have Word of Recall, Phase Door, Trap Detection, Satisfy Hunger
Should generally have everything else currently in its list.
Currently, I feel that Recharging and Magic Mapping are a bit too rare.

Magic Shop
Should infinitely have the first 2 spellbooks
Should generally have second 2 spellbooks, staves of Teleportation, Detect Evil; wands of Magic Missile, Stinking Cloud
Rest is good.
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Old June 16, 2011, 02:57   #2
jens
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I'd propose that no stores, except BM, should sell ego items.

If I want to look for good eq, I'd prefer to only have one store to look in...
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Old June 16, 2011, 03:08   #3
Jazerus
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3 could probably do with having a more predictable initial loadout of heavy vs. light weapons - it can be pretty frustrating to start up a melee character and see nothing lighter than a short sword on sale, rendering starting damage effectively halved due to lack of blows. The converse is true for mages, who (paradoxically) are better off with heavy weapons at first because they lack blows regardless of weapon choice. That situation might need some balancing itself, actually.

2 should probably also have guaranteed decent non-encumbering body armor.

Angband's randomness is fun in the dungeon, not so much in buying an initial loadout sometimes.
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Old June 16, 2011, 09:54   #4
jens
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How about guarantee of 1 each of 'Rapier' and 'Long Sword'? I believe that should cover most needs, but still leaves a possibility for a better weapon showing sometimes.

Armour does not feel that important to fix, since there are so many slots that there is always something to buy.
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Old June 16, 2011, 10:07   #5
Timo Pietilä
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazerus View Post
3 could probably do with having a more predictable initial loadout of heavy vs. light weapons - it can be pretty frustrating to start up a melee character and see nothing lighter than a short sword on sale, rendering starting damage effectively halved due to lack of blows.
If you can't buy a light weapon go without a weapon. In current vanilla you have quite a few blows without weapon at all, and damage you miss is just the dice of the weapon (until you can enchant it).
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Old June 16, 2011, 10:10   #6
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä View Post
If you can't buy a light weapon go without a weapon. In current vanilla you have quite a few blows without weapon at all, and damage you miss is just the dice of the weapon (until you can enchant it).
Do you mean it's better for a warrior to go barehanded than use a heavy weapon at start?
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Old June 16, 2011, 10:28   #7
Timo Pietilä
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Do you mean it's better for a warrior to go barehanded than use a heavy weapon at start?
With high enough STR and blows you do nearly same damage barehanded than with heavy weapon. What you do is directly the "fight" -line in character sheet. For fun I just rolled a human warrior with 12 points put to DEX and 8 to STR and 4 to CON. That gives me two blows with short sword +3 to damage total of 14.2 points of damage / turn and without weapon 4 blows which is 12 damage.

You save the money for other gears that way, and daggers etc. are common in dungeon.

Anyway it isn't catastrophic to not being able to buy light weapon at the start of the game. With something like Ring of Dog +3 to dam in use melee without weapon at all can be better than with heavy weapon with low blows count. (+3 * 4 vs +3 * 2)

[EDIT] typo fixed

Last edited by Timo Pietilä; June 17, 2011 at 04:12.
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Old June 16, 2011, 11:52   #8
dos350
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i heard some hoobaling about stat recover on lvl up , but that sucks alot,~

i suggest perm stat recover potion at #5
__________________
~eek

Reality hits you -more-

S+++++++++++++++++++
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Old June 16, 2011, 18:05   #9
dhegler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
I'd propose that no stores, except BM, should sell ego items.

If I want to look for good eq, I'd prefer to only have one store to look in...
I agree with this.

I would add that there is a min level of WoR scrolls of at least 2. I think in the general store I have found 1 before. Good enough to teleport down, but not back up.

Also, why were lanterns ever removed from the general store to begin with? They should be SOMETIMES available... Even the ones with "of brightness".
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Old June 16, 2011, 18:13   #10
Derakon
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Lanterns were presumably removed because torches provide radius-2 light now, so lanterns make a nice stepping stone for you to find in the dungeon. That follows the general theory of "it's more interesting to find gear than to buy it".
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