A new direction for Angband

takkaria · October 22, 2011, 22:07

Hello everyone,

I'm writing this on behalf of the development team.

For some time, there has been some debate about the direction of the game.

Some people want it to go into "maintenance mode" and make minimal changes, preferably starting from some previous version.
Most people seem to accept some changes if implemented cautiously and incrementally.
Other people, concerned about V's core balance issues, want a serious rethinking of the game mechanics, which may result in a prolonged period of imbalance. Some think that this approach would damage the feel of V.

Something had to give. We have decided that the best course of action is to begin work on a rapid-development, experimental codebase named v4. v4 will contain many ideas and changes designed to improve the core gameplay of V, some of which may be included in V if they prove popular with the community and don't damage the feel of V. But there is no presumption that this will be the case, and lots of things will change in v4 that won't appear in V.

In parallel, we will continue to fix bugs and cautiously and incrementally develop V. The target release date for Angband 3.4 remains early 2012, and there are no plans for any major changes at yet.

What the practical implications of this fork will be, obviously we can't know yet. We're obviously hoping this will make everyone happier. New features can be tested without annoying people with the pace of change, since they will not be implemented in V unless they are thoroughly tested and proven. The same team of people will be working on both projects for the most part.

Anyone interested is, of course, welcome to fork the new repository and submit pull requests.

This is an experiment, and we'll have to see how it goes. Please bear with us.

Any questions?

Andi Sidwell

Derakon · October 22, 2011, 22:52

Interesting. So you're basically pre-empting whoever was planning on forking Vanilla to make "RealAngband" (or whatever).

Well, I hope it works out without creating too much extra work for you all. I appreciate all the time and effort you devs have put into the game.

Jungle_Boy · October 23, 2011, 00:14

I'm excited to start playtesting v4 but I cannot build it myself, will you be releasing compiled versions for players like me?

Timo Pietilä · October 23, 2011, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by takkaria

Any questions?

Any chance to get autobuilder version of v4 so that other people than coders can test it too? Or at least source download tarball every now and then without bothering with git messes?

Magnate · October 23, 2011, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä

Any chance to get autobuilder version of v4 so that other people than coders can test it too? Or at least source download tarball every now and then without bothering with git messes?

Yes, we will definitely be auto-building v4 for linux/Windows/OSX. The autobuilder should be set up in the next few days. Pls note the OSX port is currently broken for the same reason as V (it's not UTF-8 friendly yet).

myshkin · October 23, 2011, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnate

Yes, we will definitely be auto-building v4 for linux/Windows/OSX. The autobuilder should be set up in the next few days. Pls note the OSX port is currently broken for the same reason as V (it's not UTF-8 friendly yet).

I will definitely get to this last bit eventually if no one else does, but would be happy to see pull requests from someone else. I don't have an ETA yet.

GeoffHill · October 23, 2011, 12:24

The trick is working out when you are no longer developing Vanilla. When it's a variant. Maybe you need a list of features that make the original game, the original game. For me that's the base artifact list and mechanism for finding them, and the core "spells" and combat mechanics.

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

artes · October 23, 2011, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffHill

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

Yes, I guess the list of uniques can't be changed too much. There's a lot of nostalgia when meeting good old this or that again. The same with the artifacts.

fizzix · October 23, 2011, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffHill

Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

What's a Qllqllzuup? I only know of a Qlzqqlzuup. Are you drunk? I can't think of any other reason to make such an egregious spelling error.

GeoffHill · October 23, 2011, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzix

What's a Qllqllzuup? I only know of a Qlzqqlzuup. Are you drunk? I can't think of any other reason to make such an egregious spelling error.

Well, when I designed the Unique in question I was drunk, and cackling at how much it would annoy players for years to come, so I think all spellings are valid

October 22, 2011, 22:07	#1
takkaria Veteran Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,951 Donated: $40	A new direction for Angband Hello everyone, I'm writing this on behalf of the development team. For some time, there has been some debate about the direction of the game. Some people want it to go into "maintenance mode" and make minimal changes, preferably starting from some previous version. Most people seem to accept some changes if implemented cautiously and incrementally. Other people, concerned about V's core balance issues, want a serious rethinking of the game mechanics, which may result in a prolonged period of imbalance. Some think that this approach would damage the feel of V. Something had to give. We have decided that the best course of action is to begin work on a rapid-development, experimental codebase named v4. v4 will contain many ideas and changes designed to improve the core gameplay of V, some of which may be included in V if they prove popular with the community and don't damage the feel of V. But there is no presumption that this will be the case, and lots of things will change in v4 that won't appear in V. In parallel, we will continue to fix bugs and cautiously and incrementally develop V. The target release date for Angband 3.4 remains early 2012, and there are no plans for any major changes at yet. What the practical implications of this fork will be, obviously we can't know yet. We're obviously hoping this will make everyone happier. New features can be tested without annoying people with the pace of change, since they will not be implemented in V unless they are thoroughly tested and proven. The same team of people will be working on both projects for the most part. Anyone interested is, of course, welcome to fork the new repository and submit pull requests. This is an experiment, and we'll have to see how it goes. Please bear with us. Any questions? Andi Sidwell __________________ takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

October 23, 2011, 00:14	#3
Jungle_Boy Swordsman Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 434	I'm excited to start playtesting v4 but I cannot build it myself, will you be releasing compiled versions for players like me? __________________ My first winner: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10138

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October 22, 2011, 22:52	#2
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	Interesting. So you're basically pre-empting whoever was planning on forking Vanilla to make "RealAngband" (or whatever). Well, I hope it works out without creating too much extra work for you all. I appreciate all the time and effort you devs have put into the game.

October 23, 2011, 12:24	#7
GeoffHill Rookie Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 21	The trick is working out when you are no longer developing Vanilla. When it's a variant. Maybe you need a list of features that make the original game, the original game. For me that's the base artifact list and mechanism for finding them, and the core "spells" and combat mechanics. Just promise me you won't respell Qllqllzuup. It will be forever a memorial to my drunken days as a student.

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