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Old October 14, 2011, 20:09   #51
UglySquirrell
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I think the experience gain works well for the most part but I find its way too easy to reach level 17 -18 after that it seems to slow down. I'd like the beginning levels to be more dangerous. I remember first downloading angband years ago, gearing up in town looking at my gear thinking hey this is kind of cool, went down the stairs took two steps set off a trap and died. Thought this is lame, watched some TV and for some reason I couldn't stop thinking of the game. After a bit came back rerolled managed to get to level 2 before being poisoned and dying again. Once I finally got my rogue to level 5 after many more tries I was hooked. It felt like a big accomplishment and I'd already become accustomed to the idea of permadeath. Now you can hit level 4 or 5 by throwing 2 flasks of oil at grip, or fang. And I haven't died from traps or poison at all, I remember running in terror from any breeders too. Maybe its just me but the threat of death from the second you entered the dungeon seemed to add a lot to the game.
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Old October 14, 2011, 20:33   #52
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That has less to do with experience gain -- the experience values for early levels/monsters hasn't changed in ages -- and more to do with the character's stats, I suspect. We're capable of getting some pretty horrendously overpowered characters right out of the game, which we didn't try for so much back in the day.

There've been a few suggestions to reduce the amount of points you start out with to buy stats (and even to make humans' special thing be that they get slightly more points than everyone else does). It'd be a trivial change to make; it just has to be playtested...
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:08   #53
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If magnate's affixes branch does pan out, and most of us are hoping it will, then it really forces us to look closer at how we deal with ID. The rune-based-id is looking a lot more appealing. The idea is once you know one item with 'feather falling' you know all items with 'feather falling.' Then ID can be removed completely. The only remaining issues are 'curse weapon, curse armor' and possibly summoning (although I don't think the summons are a problem)
I fixed the summoning with a suggestion from buzzkill (I think), to make new summons slowed for one turn. So you can only get instakilled if you summon something more than +10 speed faster than you (which should be pretty unlikely, unless you're suicide-diving). I agree that Curse Weapon and Curse Armour should come out until we decide how to make curses more interesting (threads passim).

I am really excited about rune-based ID, because I think it's going to be quite easy to get working. I was going to get started on it, but I've got sidetracked by your randart crash with affixes (which is actually nothing to do with affixes, but is all to do with a new artifact amulet).
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I don't actually find the XP gain a problem. I haven't heard too many other people complaining about it either. It actually works reasonably well from my gameplay perspective.
While I agree with you, I think we ought to dock a few points off the initial allocation of 24 (perhaps adjusted by race but not necessarily) and see what happens to the early game.
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:13   #54
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While I agree with you, I think we ought to dock a few points off the initial allocation of 24 (perhaps adjusted by race but not necessarily) and see what happens to the early game.
I think this is a good idea also. But, can we simultaneously lower the strength penalty for mages? It's really brutal.
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:48   #55
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Why should the mage's STR penalty be ameliorated? Is the contention that the mage starting game is at the right place right now?
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:55   #56
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Two quick comments:

1) Magnate - your egos look really cool.

2) Re experience, implementation of XP penalties for the easy races (high elf, dunedain) has always bugged me a little bit due to the level dependence on gaining XP. Though these races require more experience per level, they also effectively gain more per monster by being at a lower level. This effect is probably only relevant for CL < 30, but then again, CL doesn't matter too much after 30 anyway. Tying XP gain from killing be a function of character XP instead of level would make the XP penalties a legitimate penalty but implementation likely isn't worthwhile.
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Old October 14, 2011, 22:01   #57
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I think XP penalties are silly anyway... IMHO a better way would be to make all races gain XP at an equal rate, but have higher maximum stat caps for races that start with lower stats.

I think I'll start a new thread for that actually.
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Old October 15, 2011, 01:09   #58
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I wouldn't entirely discount changing the amount of XP needed to level as a non-starter. The fact that the discussion has turned to nefing starting stats indicates that there is a perceived problem. This is just a different approach to a solution, and the two are not mutually exclusive. Spreading the XP needed for leveling seems a lot easier. Add 10% across the board and see what happens. My guess, no one would notice, so repeat.
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Old October 15, 2011, 04:36   #59
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dont reduce stack size, it will reduce downloads and hours played of angband
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Old October 15, 2011, 05:56   #60
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dont reduce stack size, it will reduce downloads and hours played of angband
I know this will not be popular among the diehards, but I am one of the ones that wouldn't like to see stack size reduced. It can take up to 20 or more missiles to take down some uniques and even just tough monsters for a non-ranger. If you have to use an escape with all those missiles on the ground, they will be lost. Also, in my last game I actually got quite tired of having all my arrows/ bolts stacks shredded by fire and acid breathers.

Same with the ! and ? I often carry large stacks of those because I use them all the time.

If you wanted players to carry fewer consumables, you could simply make them a bit heavier. That would impact greatly on the number I would *be able* to carry without having a large speed disadvantage.
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