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Old October 16, 2011, 00:34   #11
bulian
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There's nothing stopping you carrying more than one stack ...
I think I mentioned that in my original post, so I'll interpret the response as "play, find out, and report back whether there is an issue."

It may take some time but I will play, find out, and report back, likely with a rogue. I have a feeling the late game will be particularly challenging given the other nerf to CCW from proportional to fixed healing.
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Old October 16, 2011, 00:41   #12
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Originally Posted by bulian View Post
I have a feeling the late game will be particularly challenging given the other nerf to CCW from proportional to fixed healing.
The current flat 60HP heal is still miles better than the CCW of the old days which was, IIRC, an 8d8 heal.
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Old October 16, 2011, 06:45   #13
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theres nothing stopping u from leaving the game 2 b good and not ruining it with every idea u think u have,

dont bother~

even talking about pathetic changes like this 2 make game difficult (which it wont) it will just make it annoying 2 play and i will go all the way back 2 3.12v2,, i hope eeryone else does 2 unlesse ur attitude of angband changes, and i mean u devs!!!

please no rage
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Old October 16, 2011, 06:53   #14
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even talking about pathetic changes like this 2 make game difficult (which it wont) it will just make it annoying 2 play and i will go all the way back 2 3.12v2,, i hope eeryone else does 2 unlesse ur attitude of angband changes, and i mean u devs!!!
I bet they're quaking in their boots
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Old October 16, 2011, 08:00   #15
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I bet they're quaking in their boots
It's particularly amusing that dos threatens to go back to a version which most other people who dislike current development consider far inferior to 3.0.x
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Old October 16, 2011, 08:01   #16
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I think I mentioned that in my original post
Indeed you did - sorry, my fault for skimming threads while catching up.
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Old October 16, 2011, 12:10   #17
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Originally Posted by bulian View Post
I'll trust the older players this change is good to limit power of ranged attacks, but I'm concerned about limited capacity for consumables in ironman games. Has anyone played ironman with the reduced stack sizes?
The games I was talking about in the first post of this thread are in fact ironman games (HE rangers). Up to now I took two of these guys to DLVL63/CLVL36 and DLVL48/CLVL28, before being one-shotted by some unique faster than me. I never got to the final fights, but at least for the early and mid-game I don't feel this as problematic. Typically for me the bigger limit to huge stacks of CCW is weight. Instead, I find the new stack limit good for my playing habits, since it forces me to get rid sooner of those big bunches of CLW and CSW that I'd never use anyway.

I can imagine the current state of the game to be slightly more problematic for:
1) classes without healing spells at all (warriors only? It's been a while since I last played rogues, but ISTR they also get some form of healing as a spell)
2) rangers relying on shooting too much - they should rather use missile weapons for the scarier uniques only, (+0,+0) arrows are precious to carry around.

Both of these problems make ironman more difficult but not impossible, but this does not bother me at all --- it was never supposed to be easy. And I like this kind of choices, they really turn Angband into the inventory management game that it should be.

OTOH, I think the next best change to improve ironman would be removing Alter Reality, as was already suggested in another thread; this spell defeats the whole point of ironman and makes it much easier for priests (disclaimer: I only won ironman with a priest, up to now ).
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Old October 16, 2011, 15:45   #18
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Indeed you did - sorry, my fault for skimming threads while catching up.
That's OK, I'm always amazed at how many threads I see your name beside as the last poster whenever I check OOOK.

Quote:
The games I was talking about in the first post of this thread are in fact ironman games (HE rangers). Up to now I took two of these guys to DLVL63/CLVL36 and DLVL48/CLVL28, before being one-shotted by some unique faster than me. I never got to the final fights, but at least for the early and mid-game I don't feel this as problematic.
I kind of envisioned the problem occurring closer to DL80+, when big breathers are common and trying to be killed, but its good to know it didn't matter so much before then.

Quote:
Typically for me the bigger limit to huge stacks of CCW is weight. Instead, I find the new stack limit good for my playing habits, since it forces me to get rid sooner of those big bunches of CLW and CSW that I'd never use anyway.
The psychology behind this and no selling is interesting - forcing the player to give up doing something that leads to an artificial advantage increases enjoyment of the game. I'm sure Freud would blame it all on our mothers.

Quote:
I can imagine the current state of the game to be slightly more problematic for:
1) classes without healing spells at all (warriors only? It's been a while since I last played rogues, but ISTR they also get some form of healing as a spell)
2) rangers relying on shooting too much - they should rather use missile weapons for the scarier uniques only, (+0,+0) arrows are precious to carry around.
Point 1) was what I was going after. Rogues/mages/warriors do not have access to healing spells, which is why I was suggesting a rogue - I still find playing a mage cumbersome and have only done it twice. Paladins/priests, and to a lesser extent rangers, can rely less on potions for curing. I think I eventually threw out all my CCW with my last ranger ironman winner (3.3).
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Old October 16, 2011, 19:18   #19
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Originally Posted by bulian View Post
I'll trust the older players this change is good to limit power of ranged attacks, but I'm concerned about limited capacity for consumables in ironman games. Has anyone played ironman with the reduced stack sizes?
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11864

I think I should be able to win with an ironman warrior as well. I think warriors will need 2 stacks of phase. But otherwise, I don't think they'll have any worse inventory requirements than rogues.
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