Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 29, 2018, 10:55   #741
Sky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: somewhere on the south coast
Age: 46
Posts: 1,165
Sky is on a distinguished road
Ye ye whatever. Ive been DM since 1984 (age:12) and we've banged our heads countless times on people casually carrying around a 10ft pole, you sure dont need to tell me about encumberance.

Despite this, dnd gives multiple attacks to high level players, whereas STR only affects tohit/dmg calculations. But the way Angband works ..

Look. Ideally, we would have this: a scale where weapon weight and damage increase equally, with a slight skewer in favour of damage, at the exchange of possibly missing a blow.

This is because its very easy to find magical weapons. And hitting is also easy. In dnd, a +4 magic bonus is MASSIVE and likely to only result in hits on the level-appropriate monsters you face (for warriors, that is).

In Angband, you can easily find a 1d4 +10 dagger that you get 3 attacks with, but the equivalent heavy weapon is 3d4 +10, NOT 3d4 +30. In fact magic bonuses are more relevant than slays or brands until past midgame when big hitters come into play and the bonuses curve levels off at around +18.

From a practical standpoint - once you have rBase from elvenkind, and have all your starting gear ready - there is a number of weapon artifacts you always discard, like the orc slayers, because you simply do far more damage with a dagger of fire brand.

And by the time you are capped at 5 or 6 blows, you are already in Aglarang/Anduril territory. You would have to be VERY unlucky to be using Til-y-arc for damage once you are 18/100 in STR and DEX.

However, if you wizard a CL50 char with 18/*** and look at the artifact list, you will see that Elvagil and Aeglin ARE in fact stronger that the daggers, its just that, for practical reasons, this doesnt happen to the player, because stat increase does not develop in the same way that rarity drop does.
__________________
"i can take this dracolich"
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29, 2018, 11:31   #742
kaypy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 294
kaypy is on a distinguished road
Has any experimental variant tried rebasing the enchantment range to be a function of weapon dice rather than 'about 10'?

So you would be looking at 1d4+4 vs 3d4+12?

Wouldnt stop you leaving home with a dagger, but at least the better weapons would bias heavier...
kaypy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29, 2018, 12:14   #743
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,665
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Specifically? Not sure. Crawl has bigger bonuses on big weapons & T4 has %stat instead of dice
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29, 2018, 15:57   #744
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,504
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypy View Post
Has any experimental variant tried rebasing the enchantment range to be a function of weapon dice rather than 'about 10'?

So you would be looking at 1d4+4 vs 3d4+12?

Wouldnt stop you leaving home with a dagger, but at least the better weapons would bias heavier...
Oangband-style combat makes the bonuses be a multiplier of the dice, but it's also famously opaque so it's hard to figure out how a given number changes your actual damage done. But no, I don't think anyone has tried capping enchantment based on dice.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29, 2018, 16:23   #745
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,665
wobbly is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Oangband-style combat makes the bonuses be a multiplier of the dice, but it's also famously opaque so it's hard to figure out how a given number changes your actual damage done. But no, I don't think anyone has tried capping enchantment based on dice.
Yep it's got stuff that makes you bash more or less with the shield if your weapons weak too. Got a rogue that's gotten decent at the hitting part that hasn't had an impressive weapon all game. Still not sure I'm not just shield-bashing everything to death.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2018, 12:51   #746
kaypy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 294
kaypy is on a distinguished road
Thematic gripe with the necromancer class:
The so-called-necromancer is initially perhaps the worst class at dealing with undead, and throughout the game they are weaker against undead than any other monster type.

A proper necromancer class would be looking at level appropriate undead as less of an obstacle and more of a resource.
kaypy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2018, 14:32   #747
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,190
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypy View Post
Thematic gripe with the necromancer class:
The so-called-necromancer is initially perhaps the worst class at dealing with undead, and throughout the game they are weaker against undead than any other monster type.

A proper necromancer class would be looking at level appropriate undead as less of an obstacle and more of a resource.
Yes, this has been noted. I don't have a very good answer to it yet.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2018, 15:21   #748
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,001
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Yes, this has been noted. I don't have a very good answer to it yet.
Angband has long been missing the ability to have allied monsters. Druid and necromancer classes are perhaps good motivators for introducing them. It would be a lot of work though.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2018, 16:33   #749
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,646
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Yes, this has been noted. I don't have a very good answer to it yet.
Maybe it would be enough to make the lesser undead "neutral" toward a necromancer, sort of like some persons are neutral in FAAngband.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2018, 16:42   #750
kaypy
Swordsman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 294
kaypy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Angband has long been missing the ability to have allied monsters. Druid and necromancer classes are perhaps good motivators for introducing them. It would be a lot of work though.
Given the necromancer Command spell, it seems to be heading that way already...

OK, brainstorming idea:

Low level spell "Tap Unlife"

Autotargets nearest undead monster, including invisible or wall-embedded monsters (Or it isnt much use against early undead which tends to be invisible passwall)

Inflicts damage starting about 2 or 3d4 and scaling up slower than other spells (reasonable early, but insignificant later). But gives the same amount to the caster as mana.

Expected result: early undead become cheap targets and may even be situationally beneficial (if you happen to find one when you need the mana)

Later undead you still have the option of slurping a bit of mana which wont do real damage, but might fuel a real spell.

Completely obsoletes once Power Sacrifice or an unmanagable pile of !mana and _magi make the the whole mana recovery thing laughable.
kaypy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm considering making a new Sil branch Quirk Sil 46 October 19, 2017 19:27
Trap/door feature branch Nick Vanilla 220 November 15, 2016 09:56
Curses feature branch Nick Vanilla 153 November 14, 2016 21:09
svn branch Pete Mack Vanilla 55 August 16, 2010 11:28
feature request: display magic item failure rates bebo Vanilla 5 February 12, 2009 21:35


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.