Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 6, 2011, 08:27   #31
Remuz
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 77
Remuz is on a distinguished road
I know I should not be arguing, but... Dos, if you are in such a situation that you have no personal escape mean at all, you probably deserve this. Scrolls of teleport are plentiful, and if you really need to use your stack in no time, maybe you dove too quickly?

Anyway... my (newbie) opinion of TO is that indeed it feels like cheating, and I tend to use it only when it is a matter of life and death (say when I face 2 great wyrms at once and I am too badly wounded to risk a teleport). I do not wish to have it weakened too much in the regular dungeon, for reasons explained before... basically, diving is fun. In vaults, though, having no TO would introduce some nice decisions to the player.

Of course, blink and teleport should stay available, or vaults would become too dangerous.
Remuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 11:40   #32
dos350
Knight
 
dos350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: nimbin, australia
Posts: 542
dos350 is on a distinguished road
blah blah if to is changed ill be sickened
__________________
~eek

Reality hits you -more-

S+++++++++++++++++++
dos350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 13:48   #33
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
My 2 cents, based largely on suggestions already mentioned in this thread. I feel these are changes that are easy to code and, if not a complete fix are at the very least, a step in the right direction, and are changes that very likely won't have to be reverted.

1. Increase the price. Nobody is going to sell TO (which is a great indicator that it's either over-useful/under-priced), so x10 or x20 doesn't seem unreasonable.

2. Maybe reduce the number of charges in wands, slightly. I haven't played bolt-style TO yet so I'm don't really know if this is even necessary.

3. Increase the rarity of rods of TO, slightly.

4. My out on a limb suggestion... DaJ does have some (maybe all?) monsters that rarely resist TO. I'm always unnerved when it happens, but it's never cost be a life (yet) and it certainly hasn't rendered TO useless. Maybe it's not for V, but if done with a light touch it can work.

5. Draw some suggestions form the recent thread on Scrolls of Teleport Level and make those changes at the same time since further nerfing TO will make TL that much more appealing (to Deep Decent too). I didn't note many, if any, fervent objections in that thread.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 18:27   #34
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Here's what TO allocation looks like currently. (500 sims for each level, which explains why things aren't smooth).

It's interesting that while total TO drops go up fairly linearly with level, the items that are generated on the floor rise up sharply around the allocation level and then remain steady for the rest of the game. (the bump at the very end is due to increased freq. of vaults)

All I would propose to do is to move this initial jump to the right a little. (I'll generate another stats run to show what I mean later)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tostats.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	14.4 KB
ID:	743  
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 22:12   #35
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
What are 'icky' tiles? I've also seen 'icky' corners mentioned, something else?
Icky squares have the CAVE_ICKY flag, which means (among other things) that you can't land there as the result of a teleport or phase.

I don't know what icky corners would be. Sounds like a reference to the ongoing LOS/FOV debate.
__________________
"3.4 is much better than 3.1, 3.2 or 3.3. It still is easier than 3.0.9, but it is more convenient to play without being ridiculously easy, so it is my new favorite of the versions." - Timo Pietila
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 22:19   #36
Therem Harth
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 926
Therem Harth is on a distinguished road
In retrospect, no teleport out of vaults does sound a bit too strict; no TO in vaults seems like a good compromise. Maybe throw in a thematic excuse, e.g. "The magic in the vault's walls limits the range of effect of teleport spells" or something.
Therem Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 22:51   #37
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
I have a feeling people will reverse their opinions on TOing monsters out of vaults when they realize that they have to actually fight the skull druj and the master quylthulg.

Also, if you can't TO monsters out of a vault, they shouldn't be able to TO you either.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 23:18   #38
d_m
Angband Devteam member
 
d_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Age: 41
Posts: 1,516
d_m is on a distinguished road
Icky corners is completely unrelated.

In some curses libraries, if you try to draw to the lower-right character in the terminal, the cursor will move to an invalid location and need to be reset (or crash when you try to use it). I think the icky corner code handles drawing to that particular cell in a special way, when required.
__________________
linux->xterm->screen->pmacs
d_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 23:26   #39
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,009
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
DaJ does have some (maybe all?) monsters that rarely resist TO.

Perhaps better to have a small number of monsters that always resist TO?

Anything with 'nexus' in its name, some powerful undeads and casters...

A.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6, 2011, 23:37   #40
the Invisible Stalker
Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 164
the Invisible Stalker is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
What's generally meant by "symmetrical LOS" is "if I can target a monster, then he can see and target me". Which is not always the case currently. Variants that fix this generally do so by allowing setups where you can see but not target a monster -- thus, line of sight still isn't symmetrical, but you can only derive information from it, not get free damage.
I know what people usually mean by the term, I was just pointing out that the term is not particularly well chosen. There are two kinds of symmetry you could consider, symmetry between player and monster, or symmetry between caster/shooter and target. Personally I find the arguments for the former compelling and the arguments for the latter quite weak.
the Invisible Stalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teleport Other, too powerful? buzzkill Vanilla 29 May 4, 2009 23:12
Is there any way to teleport back in the dungeon ? Dargothz Vanilla 12 February 18, 2009 19:19
[Un] .. sometimes you better do not teleport .. Arralen AAR 1 August 18, 2008 23:11
Rings of teleport and escape pesachyonah Vanilla 7 July 1, 2008 04:42
Probability of using Rods of Teleport Other? Dragonboneman Vanilla 9 February 7, 2008 20:55


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.