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Old January 31, 2019, 14:26   #1
tangar
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Adding new tile to tileset problem

I'm trying to put replace old rubble tile with new one.

Shtukensia draw this for a test:


It's in transparent png format. But when I put it to tileset png (gervais) - it make a glitch in-game



I've checked this guide: https://github.com/angband/angband/p...7a779fae3ac98e , but it doesn't tell much of such problem




===================

p.s.
posted it in wrong section of forum (should be in 'development').. But there is no button to delete a new topic. It seems users could only delete their posts at forum, not threads
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Old January 31, 2019, 15:56   #2
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Can you upload the whole tileset somewhere? It looks like the transparency isn't set up correctly.
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Old January 31, 2019, 15:58   #3
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OTOH, looks like you have implemented water.
scnr
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Old January 31, 2019, 16:59   #4
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I've tested with PWMA tileset, but now tried with V also.. the same problem.

tileset where I replaced rubble
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ip...fJb09cwGPGQ8oy
(button to download in top right corner)

my photoshop settings:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12v...5G4eCTNzEhZX3y

I've tried interlaced and non-interlaced option. Also tried to save via 'save as...' - the same result
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Last edited by tangar; January 31, 2019 at 17:05.
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Old January 31, 2019, 23:16   #5
takkaria
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Have you tried saving it as PNG-8?
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Old February 1, 2019, 11:28   #6
tangar
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PNG-8 doesn't help

But it seems I've found the source of this issue:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2254532

When photoshop load .png file, it's assigning it's Alpha channel as 'transparency'; so when you save it again 'transparent' alpha glitches.. There is some workaround with PNG-24, but it's generates certain white artifacts around some objects..

So it seems photoshop isn't suited for tiles editing at all (and it's very sad cause it's the most popular software for artists).

Takkaria, which software do you use?


===

Also:

1) maybe if we would clean 'transparent' pixels from tileset (to remove artifacts), it would be alright to use PNG-24. What do you think?
2) maybe there should be technical specifications for PNG format which Angband tileset should use, including:
- which PNG format to use (8, 24)
- interlaced or no
- which color system
etc


p.s.
I've read in the guide that alpha could be used for unusual double height objects.. sounds interesting. is there an example of such object in-game?
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Last edited by tangar; February 1, 2019 at 12:06.
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Old February 1, 2019, 12:51   #7
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Quote:
so when you save it again 'transparent' alpha glitches
Isn't there an option to save with alpha transparency? There must be; try to save it as PNG24 with transparency (which, I guess, most people would call PNG32 ).

Anyway, use GIMP

Quote:
I've read in the guide that alpha could be used for unusual double height objects.. sounds interesting. is there an example of such object in-game?
Only Shockbolt's tiles have double high objects. For example, stone giants.
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Old February 1, 2019, 14:57   #8
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I don't use any software for tiles... I've never even played with tiles. When I was maintaining the game I made much less effort with tiles than Nick does.

Have you tried using the process outlined here?

https://support.photobiz.com/support...-cc-and-higher
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Old February 1, 2019, 15:54   #9
tangar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4nk View Post
Isn't there an option to save with alpha transparency? There must be; try to save it as PNG24 with transparency (which, I guess, most people would call PNG32 ).
Nope, photoshop using .png format transparency, not separate alpha channel. So people who use photoshop with alpha channel for gamedev purpose (eg unreal engine) are screwed.

Takkaria, thanks, but I as I noted above this is deeper problem: when you open .png in photoshop it doesn't show alpha channel for it, it's got only RGB channels; cause it define alpha as .png format transparency. So after you edit the file in photoshop and wanna save it - it 'writes' in .png channel 'transparency', not alpha.. So it makes transparent pixel as white ones (as in my 1st screenshots)..

I've downloaded GIMP - when you open .png with this program - it shows separate alpha channel there, so it's working alright... But GIMP isn't really comfortable, so much photoshop functions doesn't work there
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Old February 1, 2019, 16:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar View Post
Nope, photoshop using .png format transparency, not separate alpha channel.
And what does that mean... I suspect when you say "alpha channel" you mean something that is not what programmers call "alpha channel"... PNG does support pixel formats with alpha channel.
I guess Photoshop has something that it calls "alpha channel", which is not a real alpha channel (since most Photoshop users have no reason to care about formats of pixels) and you're talking about that.

Anyway...

Quote:
I've downloaded GIMP - when you open .png with this program - it shows separate alpha channel there, so it's working alright... But GIMP isn't really comfortable, so much photoshop functions doesn't work there
Maybe save your tile as .psd (I think that's what Photoshop's own format is called), open it in GIMP and then save as .png?
Although I find it hard to believe that Photoshop cannot save .png properly.
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