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Old June 4, 2015, 20:23   #11
Derakon
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Personally, I like the idea of different realms and more creative spells. Tome4 makes really great use of buffs and debuffs, which took me a while to get used to. Angband does really poorly at this and there's a lot of room here. Personally, I'd like holy to be a buff/debuff realm with limited healing, arcane to be a pure damage realm in the glass cannon way of things, nature would have strong healing and limited summons, necromancy would have mass summons (of undead) and some limited offense. That's if I had to choose those schools. I think all realms should have some basic detection abilities and utility spells.
I have yet to see a roguelike with good coaligned monsters, let alone a roguelike with good classes based on use of coaligned monsters. It always ends up being more tedious than fun.

Re: ZAngband, keep in mind that in that game most pure casters get two realms to play with, so they still have 8 books.
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Old June 4, 2015, 20:58   #12
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Here's a crazy proposition, using Nick's orthogonal system where nature opposes arcane and holy opposes necromancy.
Here's a crazier proposition -- make 'holy' and 'necromancy' the song realms (songs of good and evil), and then make nature and arcane the more traditional spell realms.
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Old June 4, 2015, 21:20   #13
fizzix
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I have yet to see a roguelike with good coaligned monsters, let alone a roguelike with good classes based on use of coaligned monsters. It always ends up being more tedious than fun.
tome4 is ok. DCSS is passable.

Maybe it's not worth it. I don't know.
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Old June 4, 2015, 21:36   #14
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(I promise I'll go read back the thread when I'm more lucid, but...)

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It turns out that these have very strong representation in Middle Earth. Gandalf - representing the will of the Valar - was the enemy of Sauron, the Necromancer. In a similar way, the Ents represented Nature in its purest form in Middle Earth, and were opposed to Saruman, with his "mind full of wheels". So there's a spiritual spectrum from Holy to Necromancy, and a physical spectrum from Arcane (technology) to Nature.
I always imagined the Valar/Gandalf more as representing "Law" or "Order" (in society). If we were to drink the Narrativium which suggests that the Valar were always 100% right about morality and ethics (in an absolute sense), then I guess you could translate that to "Good" or "Holy" (which are not synonyms, btw!). However, I think Angband might be more interesting (story-wise) if the player weren't sure if he/she was the good guy or the bad guy. If popular movies and books are to be believed, odds are that you're actually the bad guy AFAICT: @ kills a lot of enemies, but usually gets killed before/when confronting the "ultimate" enemy. That's almost the defining trait of being a bad guy!

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Old June 4, 2015, 21:49   #15
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So how would a druid's spells differ from that of a mage or a priest?
Please consider looking at NPP's druid class as a start. I think we did a decent job with it All spells are nature based. It does genuinely play differently than the other classes in the game.

Just as a minor example, the mage has detect monsters, the priest has detect evil. The druid has detect life. So they get to detect a lot of annoying invisible monsters, but the undead are a bit of a pain to them.
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Old June 4, 2015, 23:19   #16
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Also, if we are going to have a death/necromancy realm, I hope we can come up with something better than 'necromancy' as the realm title
Rocketry?...
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Old June 5, 2015, 10:31   #17
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I would like to have a magic user class that can have access to every magic school.


PS: nature is good.
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Old June 5, 2015, 13:10   #18
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I think there is some work to do (especially rogue was dumb magic-wise. having books that were not worth carrying or keeping)

I'd prefer cleaning up first the existing books. There are spells that are NOT used -ever- due to class due to uselessneess.

Clean it out and once the two simple holy-arcane lines are proper (is that an english word?) again you should expand, not before.

A lean and mean magic system HurrayHurray
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Old June 5, 2015, 13:13   #19
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proper (is that an english word?)
Yes, it's a proper word. Or, perfectly cromulent as some would say.
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Old June 5, 2015, 13:13   #20
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I'd prefer cleaning up first the existing books. There are spells that are NOT used -ever- due to class due to uselessneess.
Candidate #1 from me: Annihilation. 60 mana? and can not target demon/undead/golems, seriously?

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Clean it out and once the two simple holy-arcane lines are proper (is that an english word?) again you should expand, not before
I think it's usually been called divine and arcane, not holy and arcane.
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