Add auto-explore to Angband 4.0

[AnonymousHero]

Originally Posted by Dwarf

This is mostly the case in later levels, and before you have most of the level mapped. If you think its dangerous to use auto-explore, you don't need to. It would be just as useful in Angband. Some design choices in DCSS seem to work well with auto-explore, but the games are not that different.

AFAICT from watching a few Let's Play's of DCSS, I don't think there's anything in DCSS that can insta-kill you from off-screen, is there? (Assuming you're not playing absurdly stupidly and just rushing through without picking stuff up, for example.)

Originally Posted by Dwarf

Auto-explore does this with one command, without the delays.

... and gets you killed once in a while. (Or, would, if it were added to Angband.)

[debo]

I don't actually care about autoexplore, but I don't understand where it would get you killed in Angband any worse than shiftrunning would.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Dwarf

Much of the playing time goes to boring travel that should be automated. Using Angband's auto-run, moving from one room to another takes a few keystrokes, and you have to wait between commands or risk running into an encounter. Getting across a half-explored level takes a lot more time. Auto-explore does this with one command, without the delays.

Have you tried running using the mouse? Just click where you want to go, and the game will try to run you there. Currently it has a maximum distance of 250 and a maximum radius of 250, but that could easily be increased; also it currently attacks the monster at the end of the run if there is one, but that could be fixed too.

Have a go - I'd be interested to hear how you think it does the job you're looking for.

[Cold_Heart]

I can sort of see some justification for such a feature on very early levels. However on deeper levels, not at all.

If there is a problem with 'boring travel' on early levels maybe early levels should be smaller and become larger as the depth increases?

Originally Posted by Nick

Have you tried running using the mouse? Just click where you want to go, and the game will try to run you there. Currently it has a maximum distance of 250 and a maximum radius of 250, but that could easily be increased; also it currently attacks the monster at the end of the run if there is one, but that could be fixed too.

Have a go - I'd be interested to hear how you think it does the job you're looking for.

Is there a way to use this feature in -mgcu UI? (that's what I play)

[Bill Peterson]

It's been a long time since I've used it, but can't you stop the Angband Borg and control the character yourself? Wouldn't that satisfy the OP's desire for auto exploration?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Cold_Heart

If there is a problem with 'boring travel' on early levels maybe early levels should be smaller and become larger as the depth increases?

That's an interesting thought.

Originally Posted by Cold_Heart

Is there a way to use this feature in -mgcu UI? (that's what I play)

Not currently - although if you're playing in Linux it does work in both x11 and sdl.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Bill Peterson

It's been a long time since I've used it, but can't you stop the Angband Borg and control the character yourself? Wouldn't that satisfy the OP's desire for auto exploration?

The answer is basically yes, apart from the fact that the borg works for 3.4.1, but nothing later. See here for the latest on the borg.

[AnonymousHero]

Originally Posted by debo

I don't actually care about autoexplore, but I don't understand where it would get you killed in Angband any worse than shiftrunning would.

Usually it's very easy to predict where shift-running will land you. (Thus you can be reasonably sure if you've detected what there is to detect.)

But, yes, shift-running can also get you killed... which is why I wouldn't and don't use it past a certain level.

However, I did forget about one aspect of DCSS-style auto-explore which would mitigate this type of thing, which is the auto-explore "exclusion zones" (I think that's what they're called), where auto-explore will prevent you from exploring automatically. I'm not sure if they're created automatically by the engine or if they only exist in fixed (portions of) levels in DCSS, but I'd think they'd be pretty hard to generate automatically as they would have to be to accomodate Angband's all-random levels.

The advantage of that shift-running over auto-explore is that it is relatively trivial to implement (compared to auto-explore at least), but more importantly... it's actually implemented now. Auto-explore is not.

[fizzix]

Originally Posted by Dwarf

It would be just as useful in Angband. Some design choices in DCSS seem to work well with auto-explore, but the games are not that different.

The games are very different (speaking about DCSS here) in both design philosophy and gameplay. Crawl is a "clear all" philosophy with capped progression. In Crawl you are expected to be able to clear every monster at a given level and floors are "done" when you've completed that task. The game balanced player progression by limiting the encounters and XP you can get from them with permanent levels.

Angband is a "clear some" philosophy with uncapped progression. You are not expected to be able to clear all the monsters on a level. A level never needs to be completed, since it can be trivially regenerated. Progression is uncapped in that you can theoretically get to character level 50 from just repeatedly scumming the first level. So progression in the game is given to player choice.

These changes yield very different design choices in level layouts, gear, monsters etc. Certain level designs in crawl, like the Swamp layout, would not work in Angband, and should never be tried, for example.


edit: regarding problems with shift-running/auto-explore. The simple solution is to cap exploration at ~50 tiles, or preferably a user set parameter. So you stop if you encounter anything interesting or you move that many tiles. This way you can refresh detects and similar. Frankly, I don't see a problem with implementing auto-explore with this caveat, but in general I agree with Derakon in that if it's necessary it's evidence of poor level design, and I'd rather try to fix that. In games with auto-explore like DCSS and TOME, I prefer to explore manually and get annoyed when the level designs are way too frustrating without autoexploration. (stuff like DCSS's swamp mentioned above, and TOME's trollmire.)

[Dwarf]

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero

AFAICT from watching a few Let's Play's of DCSS, I don't think there's anything in DCSS that can insta-kill you from off-screen, is there?

You won't get insta-killed in Angband unless you go too deep too early.
In both games you collect resistances and level up, so you won't run to an insta-kill event. This is bad game design, since the games should be about exploration and tactics, but the winning strategy devolves into picking the right fights. The available extended movement commands doesn't change this.