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Old February 18, 2012, 09:51   #1
Dark
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quest system?

this is the one thing I miss inAngband really. Short term goals restricted to the current dungeon level in and above killing of Morgoth. I know Ownband (and probably some other varients), have them, but I'd really love to see them as an option in official vanilla so that they would be more readily available to varient maintainers, and also, for myself and those who might like them, make Vanilla more fun on it's own. I'm not suggesting some major plot here, simply an npc who says "go and do x" and gives you a reward if you do it. Afterall, you can't be the only adventurer in the dungeon, and there might be morgoth's slaves, lost townsfolk or similar who might want assistance from an adventurer. This would also make the dungeon feel a little more like a real place and give flavour to your over all adventure, which is why I myself rather like quests, even in a single dungeon game.
of course, there should be a disable quests option for those who want the traditional lone hero, exploring unfriendly teretory style.

Quests could work something like this:

When you arrive on a new floor, there is a chance of a tyle near you being designated as the entrance to some location similar to the shop entrances in the town (it could even use a number symbol in ascii).

this would be an encampment of friendly dungeon explorers of one of the pc races, a hide out for some escaped slaves, or some lost individual who's wandered into the dungeon by mistake or been teleported their by magic.

You'd then get a menue similar to the shop menues giving you quests, which you could accept with number keys. Each quest would generate a reward, an amount of gold or an item, which was in quality several levels below your current floor. So, on dungeon level one, you'd get quest rewards generated as though they were items or gold found on dlvl 3 or 4, optionally, have this increased for more difficult quests. Rewards could either be shown on the quest menue directly or sometimes hidden just specified as "give you something good"

Quests could take the following form:

1: kill a given monster, either a unique or a normal monster named as quest targit found on that floor of the dungeon.

2: kill x amount of a given monster, generated on that floor of the dungeon.

3: find item x (again, specified as quest targit), and bring it back to the quest location, a good one for rogues and wizards who might not want to do so much slaying.

4: find friendly monster x and bring them back to the quest location. Good for paladins and priests who can keep the targit alive, and probably an interesting one in terms of tactics.

quests are canceled if the player descends from the level without completing them, or if the quest targit is killed or destroyed, though cancelling doesn't harm the player other than them missing out on whatever the reward was. Also needless to say you could only have one quest per level to prevvent people spamming it for rewards, and once generated, the quest menue with it's choice of however many quests (I'd suggest a maximum of about 5) would be all the choice you got for that level.
Obviously, having the quest giver in the dungeon lets quests be generated along with the dlvl, where as when the player is in town the next level hasn't been generated which would make creating a quest for it rather hard, and also having the quests given by a location that the player can enter and a menue rather than another friendly monster means that the quest giver won't be killed off by dungeon monsters before the player fulfills the quest, which could get irritating.

equally, it'd be easy to just have an option to turn this off, simply either stop quest location tyles from appearing, or have them always be closed.

If a player fails to go into a quest location in the first say 20 turns when entering a dungeon level it closes, thus preventing players from fulfilling quests before they get them, and making sure the quest targits only correspond to what the player has previously accepted.

Needless to say, accepting quests would still take the players judgement, sinse being asked to kill 10 greater wyrms probably wouldn't be a wise choice for a player whatever the reward, though equally if the reward were good enough (assuming rewards were shown), a player might accept a tough quest to get it, thus creating another dimention of risk assessment in the game, as well as the background and flavour such a system would generally add.

As I said, I know this idea might not appeal to everyone, and indeed I would always suggest there be an option not to generate quests just in case players don't want them.

but for people like myself who just get a kick out of background, exploring and accomplishing things, it might add a lot to the game, and indeed be nice encouragement for new players, okay, you didn't kill morgul, but you did help the dwarves with their goblin problem!

Hope people like the idea.

As I said, I'm sure a varient or two could include this, but if it was in vanilla as a possible default option, it'd already be there in the game, plus make vanilla itself imho more fun.

appologies if this suggestion has already been made.

Last edited by Dark; February 18, 2012 at 09:57.
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Old February 18, 2012, 11:08   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark View Post
this is the one thing I miss inAngband really. Short term goals restricted to the current dungeon level in and above killing of Morgoth. I know Ownband (and probably some other varients), have them, but I'd really love to see them as an option in official vanilla so that they would be more readily available to varient maintainers, and also, for myself and those who might like them, make Vanilla more fun on it's own.
A LOT of variants have quests actually, and some have town services too!
out the top of my head, I can think of Z, scth and npp, but I'm sure the maintainers can advertise their own variants here, if it has what you are lookink for...
I'd not count too much on the chance to include quests in V, the general design guideline seems to keep it conservative (v4 otoh is there for experimentation)
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Old February 18, 2012, 11:23   #3
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Yep, I know several varients have quests of one sort or another, however as I said, it'd be nice to sort of have an official version in vanilla just as we have an official town with shops and varient maintainers can do stuff with it.

As to conservative, this is why I suggested the system work fairlly minimally, basically from a mechanics perspective simply be a way of having a chance to get a slightly better item for a little more work on the current floor, and with a fair few restrictions, ie, just once per floor, one chance to enter only and just the one location to get them, ---- heck even if quests were to be just restricted to the "kill monster" type, and just happened with a menue asking a single y/n question when you descended a staircase rather than a tyle on the floor I'd still be happy.

something like when you descend some starecase you get a message saying you've met person x and they'll give you y if you kill a certain monster, accept y/n?

just something to add a little more accomplishment and flavour to general dungeon descent for those who want it, just as version 3 added to the terrain to make the layout of things a little less predictable and give more in the environment to explore.
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Old February 18, 2012, 15:56   #4
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It would be fun if orcs, especially orc uniques, would occasionally have prisoners. Save them within a time limit or they will be eaten! You would be notified of prisoners when you enter the level. Saving them would give a bonus, like an item or experience.

I don't think EyAngband-style quests generally work very well in *bands. They tend to lead to too slow diving. However, Camlost has made some very interesting balance tweaks to quests in Sangband that may have solved this problem.
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Old February 18, 2012, 22:23   #5
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NPP has quests, as many or as few as you like, and a slick new 32x32 tileset.
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Old February 19, 2012, 03:50   #6
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As I said, I know varients have quests, ---- and actually with all I've heard I probably ought to give npp a go, however here I was expressly thinking of Vanilla, just to make life more interesting.

As to dive speed, that's exactly why I mentioned quest cancelling being without penalty. You take a quest, explore as much of the level as you want, accomplish or not then descend as usual. If your on a hugely fast run, well you don't get the quest, however you've still got a chance of completing it. This is also why I suggest rewards simply as a slightly better generated item, something you could probably do without ultimately.

At the same time, quests could make a slight tactical difference in that there could be quest rewards it'd be worth having and exploring for, though once again that's left as an exercize in players' judgement of risk just like the rest of angband tactics.

I must confess I myself do enjoy the exploring side of things, probably why around dlvl 50 has been my max depth, hence why I'd so much enjoy some reward for it, albeit one which, if I were playing purely for max dive speed and minimum risk I'd possibly not get as much bennifit from.

As I said, I know varients have this, but often varients with quests don't get the nicer features of vanilla, for instance last time I tried zangband it had no graphic options let alone monster list or a nosell option. also for latest varient versions it would be there for those who want to include it (I'd love to see this type of system in Daaj, my personal favourite varient thus far).

While I freely admit balance may need tweaking with my initial suggestion as in the first post, ---- though I did try to think of possible abuses, I wouldn't like to see such a system missed completely just for fear of imbalance.

Then of course, note that this would all be optional. No quests would be like no assending stairs, no town, no selling etc, something that was there fore players who were interested in it, but not for those who weren't, indeed I do remember a similar balance discussion around the no selling to shops option. Personally I love this option and miss it where it isn't present, but obviously there are people who prefer to play with it off.

In which case, even if after balancing it was found quests did! make the game slightly easier, it wouldn't matter too much sinse those wanting a tough game could disable them.
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Old February 19, 2012, 11:39   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark View Post
and actually with all I've heard I probably ought to give npp a go
If you like Vanilla, NPP may be just perfect for you. Some (lots of?) people think it's a better Vanilla Angband experience than the real thing.
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Old February 19, 2012, 13:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
If you like Vanilla, NPP may be just perfect for you. Some (lots of?) people think it's a better Vanilla Angband experience than the real thing.
You can toggle lots of the npp specific features to get a fairly vanilla game close to the 3.0.3 era, specifically (or just keep the options you would want to play with in a vanilla game):

birth_force_small_levels
player ghosts
quests
store services
extra artifacts
unusual terrain or dungeons

At that point NPP still has 4gai, and lots of small changes, but it offers a reasonable simulation of classic Angband with the current UI.
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Old February 21, 2012, 02:45   #9
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Cool

Been playing a little NPP lately, and I have to say, that the quest system is very enjoyable. I haven't played enough to know if it is balanced well or not, but it sure is engaging enough to entice me into situations way too dangerous to handle

-F
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Old February 21, 2012, 08:05   #10
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Originally Posted by Old Coach View Post
Been playing a little NPP lately, and I have to say, that the quest system is very enjoyable. I haven't played enough to know if it is balanced well or not, but it sure is engaging enough to entice me into situations way too dangerous to handle

-F
The problem I see with the quests is that they speed up character development and at the same time slow down diving. This may easily lead to situations where only the quest monsters are challenging on any given level. I find this boring.

In modern Sangband, player level affects the quest depth. (If I've understood correctly.) This should help a lot.

I haven't actually tried quests in NPP. This insight comes from EyAngband and Sangband experience. (The Adventurers' Guild originated in Ey.)

Last edited by Mikko Lehtinen; February 21, 2012 at 08:11.
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