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Old April 13, 2018, 10:14   #31
Sphara
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Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?
I'm playing the new blackguard class online and it is so strong that I haven't had any reason to cast the spells. I thought I'd try to spam the spells later when I'd get my INT up but now I have 9 attacks so the experiment is sorta ruined since I really cannot tell anymore if they make any difference. Shield bash during the early game let me melee Nar, every orc boss, umbar bros etc unhasted and barely taking any damage after the stun kicked in. Got fairly good Westernesse weapon but still, it felt way too strong.

I would def try device class. Especially because i tend to overlook other devices besides TO/Speed/Tele. Would probably need a launcher nerf to that class. Something like reduced distance/dmg.
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Old April 13, 2018, 10:57   #32
Gwarl
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I think devices are a dungeon constant rather than a class specialty. I don't like the idea of closing off parts of the game to non-specialists.
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Old April 13, 2018, 11:10   #33
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?
Sounds good. I'd be interested in both.

I'm assuming that the spell-oriented class should be able to live happily device-free. This class would probably then need some other hoops to jump through, such as a massive str penalty (so that our magicians are finally forced to start wearing robes), or something else.
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Old April 13, 2018, 11:47   #34
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I think right now it's hard to find a good use for most of the spells in Raals, or damage spells in general. Part of this is due to the nonlinear nature of SP. When you find Raals you don't have enough mana to cast the spells regularly and reliably. By the time you have the SP, those spells are outclassed by other options.
If you're playing a rogue, Raal's is nearly useless. By the time you have enough mana to use the two available spells reliably they're too underpowered to be worth bothering with.

I also find Scarabtices annoying because every time I've ever found it I already have the four basic resistances anyway (getting those is one of my first goals in the game) so they're not even worth learning. The only ones I ever bother with in that book are Resistance and Shield. I think Scarabtices should have more useful single resists, like Nexus and Poison.
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Old April 13, 2018, 11:55   #35
Philip
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Temporary resistance actually stacks with permanent resistance, though admittedly, even then, you usually want to cast Resistance rather than the single temp resist.
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Old April 13, 2018, 12:13   #36
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Originally Posted by Gwarl View Post
I think devices are a dungeon constant rather than a class specialty. I don't like the idea of closing off parts of the game to non-specialists.
I'm not thinking of anything being closed off. Other classes would still be able to use devices, but the device class would get the boosts mages currently get, the recharging mages currently get (while mages would keep the new turn-charges-into-mana) and some extra device-related spells.
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Old April 13, 2018, 12:38   #37
Pete Mack
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@sphara--sounds like a problem with randarts as much as with blackguard.
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Old April 13, 2018, 12:42   #38
Pete Mack
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@gglibertine-
Raal's isn't worth carrying as a Ranger, either. Kelek's is worth carrying for a ranger: that is one of the three b8g avantages: shots, *destruction*, and Glyph of Warding.
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Old April 13, 2018, 14:34   #39
Gwarl
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I'm not thinking of anything being closed off. Other classes would still be able to use devices, but the device class would get the boosts mages currently get, the recharging mages currently get (while mages would keep the new turn-charges-into-mana) and some extra device-related spells.
Yeah so you're taking that stuff away from mages, making people choose beforehand whether they want the wands bonus and recharge ability of the mage or the spellcasting versatility, rather than allowing both.
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Old April 13, 2018, 16:32   #40
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Given I'm currently going through a rework of classes, what do people think about having two arcane classes, one with powerful spells and one which primarily uses devices, and gets spells to enhance that?
I'm a bit leery of making a class that is primarily dependent on items that a) are not necessarily in ready supply, and b) can easily be destroyed by enemies. In other words, I'm not certain that magic devices should be a primary tool of any class; they just should be good enough that many classes consider them a useful supplement / first strike.

If you want to remove magic devices from the mage (i.e. worsen mage device skill, lose the recharging spell(s)), then I agree with fizzix that they should be given to the rogue instead. But I'm not convinced that the status quo needs tinkering with.
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