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Old December 6, 2020, 18:35   #161
mrfy
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To me, it makes more sense to have it in the order of Warrior, full casters followed by their half casters.

Warrior

Mage
Rogue

Druid
Ranger

Priest
Paladin

Necromancer
Blackguard
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Old December 6, 2020, 18:50   #162
DavidMedley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
a "full-caster" is less complex than a "half-caster", one class being simpler than a hybrid of two classes.
Yes, fully matters of opinion and there are several sensible ways to organize. But this is a fact: there's about 40% less spells to learn as a Paladin than as a Priest. Also, I think 0%-50%-100% is a bit more intuitive sorting than 0%-100%-50%.

The current none-full-half order is fine with me, honestly. But the seeming lack of organization within that framework causes my OCD to flare a little.

Last edited by DavidMedley; December 6, 2020 at 18:56.
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Old December 6, 2020, 18:54   #163
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My thoughts on this subject are heavily influenced by introducing the game to my sons (12 and 9 yo) and seeing what works for them.
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Old December 6, 2020, 19:56   #164
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Honestly, in my experience, with the possbile exception of Priests, the full casters are harder to play. They have fewer hitpoints, and their primary source of offense can run out of juice. So they tend to be less forgiving of mistakes.
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Old December 6, 2020, 20:34   #165
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Quote:
What do others think?
I like DavidMedley's suggestion. Sorting by class complexity makes sense and seems a good newbie-friendly change.

As for class complexity, I have no doubts that beating orcs with a stick is simpler than beating orcs with a stick and occasionally casting spells, which in turn is simpler than using spells, wands, and arrows while not letting them get close because you're squishier.
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Old December 6, 2020, 20:49   #166
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I'm sentimental.

I'm kinda attached to the idea of putting them in order of their introduction to the game... Warrior being the OG adventurer, so gets listed first, followed by Rogue, Priest and Wizard, in any order... this would put Blackguard last.

It's organic, and acknowledges the long history of the roguelike genre.

Any newbie with any experience with fantasy gaming will understand it intuitively.

But ultimately, it really doesn't matter very much at all.
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Old December 6, 2020, 21:33   #167
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With luck we'll have a proponent for all 9! possibilities soon (maybe 8!, everyone seems to want warriors first).
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Old December 6, 2020, 23:33   #168
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One other thing I want to do before releasing 4.2.2 is fix the default point allocation at birth. Blackguards are definitely wrong - they need more INT. What other classes are not working well?
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Old December 6, 2020, 23:49   #169
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I don't think I've ever put 12 points in any stat on any class, but maybe I'm crazy.
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Old December 7, 2020, 00:04   #170
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Dwarf and Dunadan are supposed to make the best paladins but even they start with only 13 WIS. Doesn't anyone else think that's too low? Or does higher MP pool break the game coz of easier Minor Healing?
Even ranger has higher starting WIS. Definitely could take DEX default value down a little imo. Paladin gets 2.3 starting attacks already with 18/20 STR, 15 DEX.
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