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Old June 19, 2007, 19:35   #21
Bandobras
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Some more random S ramblings:

I hate it when Wormtongue picks up my stuff and on death drops only some of what he picked up (confirmed many times).

I've hit Wormtongue (with throwing skill 40) three times with a potions of Slowness and he resisted every time. If the potions are useless against uniques, when are they supposed to be useful? Against ordinary crowds of monsters?

Could boulders be worn in the quiver? My Half-Troll Lobber would be glad...

Anyway, the game is a lot of fun.

Edit: BTW, a slight display bug: 'case S_THROWING:' is missing in line 2203 of skills.c.

Last edited by Bandobras; June 19, 2007 at 21:04.
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Old June 19, 2007, 22:14   #22
camlost
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Code:
case SV_POTION_SLOWNESS:
{
	typ = GF_DO_SLOW;
	if (who < 0) dam = get_skill(skill, 20, 75);
	else         dam = 20;
	break;
}
.
.
.
/* Cast the projection, notice effects, reset "allow_activate" */
notice = project((who < -1 ? -1 : who),
	rad, y, x, y, x, dam, typ, flg, 0, 0);
who is -1 for throwing, and it should be using the throwing skill.

Code:
		case SV_STAFF_SLOW_MONSTERS:
		{
			if (info) return ("");
			if (use)
			{
				if (slow_monsters(get_skill(S_DEVICE, 25, 95))) *ident = TRUE;
			}
			break;
		}
		case SV_WAND_SLOW_MONSTER:
		{
			if (info) return ("");
			if (use)
			{
				if ((need_dir) && (!get_aim_dir(&dir))) return ("");
				if (slow_monster(dir, get_skill(S_DEVICE, 25, 80)))
					*ident = TRUE;
			}
			break;
		}
For comparison, magic devices are a bit more powerful, but not unreasonably slow. I expect Wormy simply has a decent saving throw.
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Old June 20, 2007, 10:53   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandobras View Post
I hate it when Wormtongue picks up my stuff and on death drops only some of what he picked up (confirmed many times).
No. If you kill him on the same level he will drop every item he has picked up or stolen (but not stolen gold). If you leave the level, he will have none of it with him next time you meet him.
Quote:
I've hit Wormtongue (with throwing skill 40) three times with a potions of Slowness and he resisted every time. If the potions are useless against uniques, when are they supposed to be useful? Against ordinary crowds of monsters?
I don't think your skill affects his save at all, it just makes it easier for you to hit. I guess slowness is quite a weak potion and Wormy has quite a good save. Try using it on orc uniques, they may have lower saves even though they're tougher.
Quote:
Could boulders be worn in the quiver? My Half-Troll Lobber would be glad...
Hey, that's quite a good idea. Nice one.

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Old June 20, 2007, 11:40   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
No. If you kill him on the same level he will drop every item he has picked up or stolen (but not stolen gold).
Unfortunately, I'm quite sure this is untrue. I think I've enocountered this bug also in NPP (or was it V?) with some other monsters. I suspect they lose the first picked up object. If I encounter this problem again, I will post. Up to now I thought this is a feature...
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Old June 20, 2007, 16:40   #25
camlost
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I've never noticed monsters not dropping items that they've picked up, but negative confirmation doesn't prove anything.

The point of my post was that increasing your skill with throwing does make it harder to save, but not as hard as equivalent magical devices would.
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Old June 20, 2007, 16:54   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
I don't think your skill affects his save at all, it just makes it easier for you to hit. I guess slowness is quite a weak potion and Wormy has quite a good save. Try using it on orc uniques, they may have lower saves even though they're tougher.
CC
I just had a look at the resitance code, and it seems to be only dependend of monster depth (there is no "resistance" number in "monster.txt"). It is calculated as 15 + 2/3 * depth for uniques (5 + 2/3 *depth for others), so with a native depth of 8, Wormtongue has a resistance of 20. This is compared to random(power), which is 20 + (40/100 * 55) = 44 for a potion of slowness and throwing skill of 40, according to the code camlost posted above. So you've got a chance of 20 in 44 or roughly 50% for Wormy resisting your potion with that throwing skill.
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Old June 20, 2007, 21:11   #27
Bandobras
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Lucky bastard --- resisted three times in a row!
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Old June 21, 2007, 16:44   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camlost View Post
I've never noticed monsters not dropping items that they've picked up, but negative confirmation doesn't prove anything.
Hmm. Come to think of it I do remember a bug along these lines, but not for a loooong time (0.9.9beta6 or so) - so long that I can't clearly remember it, anyway. My current clumsy giant gets robbed *a lot*, and has so far never failed to get anything back.
Quote:
The point of my post was that increasing your skill with throwing does make it harder to save, but not as hard as equivalent magical devices would.
Oops my bad - that's good to know though. I think throwing is underrated. Must try a thrower again one day. Throwing, Weaponsmithing, Spell Resistance. Maybe Stealth too.

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Old June 21, 2007, 18:53   #29
Bandobras
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Hobbit necros with Bat Form are wonderful melee-less throwers. But necros are good enough even without throwing...

My problems with Wormy are not when he robs my equipment, but picks up my stashes of items (he seems even to stray to get them, damned 7GAI). Then he drops most of the picked up items, but not all.
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Old June 22, 2007, 11:14   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandobras View Post
Hobbit necros with Bat Form are wonderful melee-less throwers. But necros are good enough even without throwing...

My problems with Wormy are not when he robs my equipment, but picks up my stashes of items (he seems even to stray to get them, damned 7GAI). Then he drops most of the picked up items, but not all.
Ah - maybe he's hitting some kind of limit, then. I only lose one or two items at a time. If there's a limit, and he picks up more items than that, it makes sense that you wouldn't get them all back. Solution here is to look at the source and increase the limit, if there is one.

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