thinking about a no artifact game, need help

[bron]

I have played a lot of no-artifacts games. I believe it is possible to win with any class, but generally it is the hand-to-hand combat that suffers the most, so classes that rely on HTH are generally at the biggest disadvantage compared to games with artifacts.

As others have noted, some of the resists are very hard to come by; you generally have to do without a couple of them. The new Dragon Scale Mail Ego's should help in this regard. If you can't cast "Resistance", then temporary electrical resistance is hard. I have been known to carry a Ring of Lightning specifically for the purpose of fighting Ancalagon, and then discarding it afterwards. (Note that you can put on the ring, activate it, then take it off.)

+Con items are rare. My final kit normally consists of one +Con ring, one ring of speed, boots of speed, and an amulet of trickery, and whatever armor I've managed to find.

For a melee weapon, you're looking for one of the big three (blade of chaos, scythe of slicing, or mace of disruption) with some form of Slay Evil (Slay Evil, *Slay Evil*, or Holy Avenger) or possibly Extra Attacks. If you can do 70(+) damage per blow, that's pretty good with no-artifacts. If you don't particularly plan on using the melee weapon all that much, look for something with a good side-effect: a Westernesse weapon with +2 Con, or a Blessed, Gondolin, or *Slay Evil* weapon with a good ability (e.g. telepathy)

For a ranger, your goal is to find a longbow of Lothorien with +2 Might, an awesome weapon at 3 shots per round. You'll probably have to settle for something less. For other characters, a Haradrim light crossbow, or a heavy crossbow of extra shots. A <+2,+2> Buckland sling is even better, but don't count on being able to find one.

No-artifacts is definitely more of a challenge, and you have to be willing to take more time to find needed items. In particular, you need to be on the lookout for items with random resists and abilities that can plug holes. But try not to get too hung up searching for that "perfect" item: a Blade of Chaos of Gondolin with ESP might be just exactly what you want, but you'll probably never find one.

Good luck!

[Storm-Sky]

I'm seriously thinking about a dwarven rogue, high saves, infravision, stealth, good con, plus the ability to wield bows decently, good melee skills, and high hp's, not to mention resistance to blindeness, and the ability to cast good spells later on such as resistance and shield, and teleport, what's your thoughts on this class combo? my biggest concern is healing, my last half-troll warrior made it all the way to level 99 but couldn't get the job done, couldn't find enough healing consumables to keep wiping out the high level uniques like vecna, the terrasque, and ancalagon, despite having every resist covered. i think stealth would have probably helped a lot though. I was playing randarts so i got a mismatched sort of equipment list.

[bron]

Originally Posted by Storm-Sky

I'm seriously thinking about a dwarven rogue [...] what's your thoughts on this class combo?

It is certainly a viable choice. I ran a no-artifacts ironman character with a High Elf Rogue (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10439 with discussion in http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=3475) so I should think a Dwarf would be a good choice as well.

[Storm-Sky]

I'm going to give that run a try, I'm prone to dwarves, after that I will probably try a high-elf ranger. i find artifacts interesting specifically randarts yet they tend to distract me from the gear I really need to choose, perhaps I will be happier with less choices and look for ego's.

[artes]

Playing a game without using artifacts sounds like an interesting idea. I've long thought it sad that I hardly use ego items even though they have such cool names, because I most often quickly find an artifact that is better.

Originally Posted by Storm-Sky

I think I would like to see much less artifacts but with a power level boost for the rarity, some artifacts aren't as good as some ego's.

I don't think artifacts necessarily should be stronger than ego items. I really like to find an ego item that is stronger, because I think they are more cool than artifacts.

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by artes

I don't think artifacts necessarily should be stronger than ego items. I really like to find an ego item that is stronger, because I think they are more cool than artifacts.

That's one sentence I feared to see here sooner or later. Now it is here.

This shows that finding an artifact is no longer "Wohoo!, something special" -moment.

[Zyphyr]

I can accept the absolute best egos being better than low level artifacts (as well as some of the wierder randarts), but in general Artifacts need to be better than Ego items.

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by Zyphyr

I can accept the absolute best egos being better than low level artifacts (as well as some of the wierder randarts), but in general Artifacts need to be better than Ego items.

artes didn't say "better", he (or she) said "more cool". In fact, s/he also said "I hardly use ego items even though they have such cool names, because I most often quickly find an artifact that is better."

This isn't about which items are better, it's about people having different preferences.

[sethos]

I tend to think that an artifact should be better in most cases, near all of the time. but if you happen to find that one high end ego item that gives exactly what you need, or got maxed out when it was rolled up, why shouldn't it be better than an artifact under some circumstances? mayhap it would not be better for a mage, but better for a warrior... perhaps.

I like the idea of having to *Occasionally* balance my super keen artifact against this truly awesome new ego I just got, and maybe finding that the ego will serve my purposes better.

[Storm-Sky]

after changing my mind several times i went with a high-elf warrior, because i've been feeling the warrior types lately, I think it's a good choice, will probably take many game turns to complete though, will post a dump later and update progress.