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Old January 9, 2018, 21:00   #131
Werbaer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Mages have between 900 and 1000 hp. Warriors have 1050 to 1150.
Is this a 4.1.2 change?
My last mages had 822 and 852 hp. My last warriors had 1075 and 1125 hp.

With max con, warriors have (or had) 225 hp more than mages of the same race. Since mages are usually of the frailer races, the difference is usually ~50 higher. An average lv 50 hobbit mage has 828 hp with max constitution, an average half-troll warrior 1185.
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Old January 9, 2018, 21:08   #132
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Not having played in a longish time, I dont see the plan yet, either. Having stone to mud in the book or not isnt changing playstyle at all; it just means you have less inventory space. Things that make playstyle differences are banishment or orb of draining - because they are not readily available from device, or not at all.

It needs something like that to give a class the feel of a spellcaster; otherwise, its more like a nuking hybrid - elemental ranger rather than mage.
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Old January 9, 2018, 23:28   #133
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Things that make playstyle differences are banishment or orb of draining - because they are not readily available from device, or not at all.
That's a good point. Currently two-thirds of the spells in the new mage dungeon books are not available anywhere else.
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Old January 10, 2018, 10:10   #134
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Stone to mud is easily fixable: add a "tool" slot for diggers, so you don't have to carry and swap your weapon each time you want to dig a square. Or give more charges to the wands.
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Old January 10, 2018, 11:27   #135
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Reducing the number of books (as is in the plans) also frees up one or two inventory slots.
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Old January 10, 2018, 13:31   #136
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That seems to be Nick's goal. To make each magical realm more distinct, they need to have things they can't do. Hopefully each pure caster ends up feeling like they're really good at some things, can do other things decently, and have to rely on devices or do without for everything else.
That is a very risky route ... as long time player i noticed that kind of development in a lot of games which 'dried away' afterwards. If the player loose the fun they stop playing, which reduces playerbase which reduces possible maintainer interest (minimum playerbase required to keep a game alive).

WHY should mages can't do certain things? That is a limitation of the player (which is not required).

All the mage players are used to this stuff and now the 'new mage' is just a drastically reduced assembly of spells which lacks a lot. WE can come up with other solutions.

For example: we could do it that way that all mage classes can learn all available spells, BUT they have drawbacks in spells not fitting their main realm, like double cost, longer casting time or the like.

To Derakon's hint to make classes distinct:
Stone To Mud is probably the most often used spell (after the different attack spells), so solving that over wand is basically a no-go for me.
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Old January 10, 2018, 13:44   #137
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free slots

Quote:
Originally Posted by fph View Post
Reducing the number of books (as is in the plans) also frees up one or two inventory slots.
That is the wrong direction!

Mages (all spellcasters) main source of power should be their spells. Having the spells reduced does reduce the possibilities. MORE spells would be the way to develop the game. And to ensure that not every game is basically the same like the last game it would be required to have different spells each game you play!

And how could that be implemented? Make town spellbooks empty books for around 5-6 spells that can be inscribed.

Make all spells available on scrolls, and once you find a scroll you can either inscribe the spell into your book (if the magic realm fits).

Currently the game design is basically trying to make each class having a unique playing style. We should watch out that the four mages of the different magic realms do not play identically in the end! Because then three of the four classes would be obsolete.
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Old January 10, 2018, 13:54   #138
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unique characters

The 'best' way is in my eyes the freedom of the player to choose what he likes. That makes the game the most fun for him, and why should we want to limit that?

So what about the following idea? Since intelligence already is the base for the mana points calculation there is not realy the need to make the number of available spells too depending on INT.

A mage could learn one spell at level 1, and then a new one each time he leveld up two times. So at CL 3,5,7,9,11 ...

That makes a total of 25 spells at CL 50 (5 books a 5 spells).

Each mage class can learn either from the mage house in town, or of scrolls, or of unique defined items like rune stones, magic orbs or whatever we call the items which holds possible new spells.

THIS change is much much more important than the distinction of the mage class into the four discussed realms (even tho i think that makes sense and adds to the flavor or the game).

After thinking about it, i am realy pro for the idea to just keep ONE mage class, but to allow that class to either learn spells from all four magic realms or focus on one of the four realms.

argument: In the end all four pure caster classes will basically play in the same way. They get a collection of utility spells and will require a set of different powerfull attack spells. But they will all be weak at melee combat and so the playing styles will not cover the same spells but basically be very similar in the end i guess.

So it throw my hat into the ring to just keep one mage class but think about how we could develop a game mechanic to
a) allow the player to choose the spells he learns
b) have it a drawback to split all your spells over different realms

Last edited by Tibarius; January 10, 2018 at 14:20.
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Old January 10, 2018, 14:45   #139
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It might be neat to make the mage class like the grey-mage in poscheng, where it can learn a limited number of spells (10?) from any realm. There could be an extra bonus where focusing on only spells from one or two realms gives you some kind of boost for specializing.
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Old January 10, 2018, 15:04   #140
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Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
Stone To Mud is probably the most often used spell (after the different attack spells), so solving that over wand is basically a no-go for me.
Wow I use it a lot less often than that. I think I use it less than the detection spells, phase door, and probably even create doors. I'm no pro though, maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
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