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Old May 31, 2015, 22:13   #11
Nick
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
I
- Pits layouts should be moved out to edit files
- The format of room_template.txt, vault.txt and the hypothetical pit layout file should ideally be harmonised so they all use the same symbols for the same things, and you can make rooms combining features of all three
- Layouts should be possible to use both specifically and flexibly, so that you can specify when a room is generated that it should contain given monster and treasure types, but you're not rigidly locked into using those same types every single time it's generated (for this, I favour combining a generic template with a monster/treasure profile from another file, similar to how pits currently work)
- It should be possible to add/remove/customise all of these rooms types, and new level profiles or themes, entirely via the edit files without having to touch the code
This is all very much along the lines of what I'm thinking. The harmonising of symbols is I think almost completely done. I also like the idea of having different theme variants of the same room - possibly just by listing the relevant monsters/objects in the room edit file.
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Old May 31, 2015, 22:14   #12
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Originally Posted by Whelk View Post
This all sounds real exciting. I'm a flavor geek, so I love the idea of Tolkienising a little more - something as simple as changing some creature names would be fun. I'd be glad to help offer suggestions with this, though I wouldn't be surprised if Nick already had most things figured out already, since he seems to be more of a Tolkien nerd than I am.
I do already have some ideas, which may even start to creep into 4.0 in a completely gameplay-neutral fashion
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Old May 31, 2015, 22:35   #13
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
This is all very much along the lines of what I'm thinking. The harmonising of symbols is I think almost completely done. I also like the idea of having different theme variants of the same room - possibly just by listing the relevant monsters/objects in the room edit file.
It would be good to be able to have multiple possible object tvals for a given room, perhaps with a series of object lines - for instance, you could have a 'mining camp' layout where the allowed objects are diggers, lights and flasks of oil, and then apply monster themes that make all the 'miners' orcs, kobolds, hobbits etc., whether randomly or according to an overall level theme.

And in fact, if you're eventually including new terrains, you could even make that equally flexible by theme. For instance, you could have a layout like:

Code:
D:##############
D:#............#
D:#..;;;;;;;;..#
D:#.;;;;;;;;;;.#
D:#..;;;;;;;;..#
D:#............#
D:##############
T:lava
T:water
T:swamp
Where ; is your all-purpose 'terrain' symbol that can be generated as any one of the specified terrain themes, making the same room serve triple duty as a pool, a lava pit or a swamp. Combine with, say, three possible monster themes and three object themes, and suddenly from one layout design you've got 27 possible rooms.

I'm in favour of introducing that kind of thematic flexibility wherever possible, because it both makes the dungeon less predictable and vastly increases the bang for your buck in terms of number of layouts required. I mean, I've got about 150 special rooms designed already - if they all had 27 possible variations, that would generate ~4000 different rooms from the same-sized edit file.
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Old May 31, 2015, 23:51   #14
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Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
- Pits layouts should be moved out to edit files
- The format of room_template.txt, vault.txt and the hypothetical pit layout file should ideally be harmonised so they all use the same symbols for the same things, and you can make rooms combining features of all three
On further consideration, I'd slightly amend/expand on this suggestion:

* Keep room_template.txt purely for basic unthemed rooms with random monsters and objects at random positions. (And maybe get rid of the current rather bodged 'scatter some stuff around this point' mechanic in favour of header lines specifying % chance of objects/monsters/traps in each open square, or something.)

* Keep vault.txt for current-style vaults where the positions and OOD-ness of monsters/treasures are specified but the types are entirely random.

* Make the third file themed_rooms, for all rooms with fixed-position monsters/treasures/terrains and lists of permitted themes for filling them. Pits would be a subset, and so would the tval-specified treasure rooms currently in room_template.
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Old June 1, 2015, 08:27   #15
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This is pretty much what is in my head for the next three major versions at the moment.
Any plans for the curses? Sticky curse is bad game design and difficult to fix, my idea for that is "semi-sticky", you can take off the item, but you can't drop it. If you try it goes to inventory instead.

Items could have (some, lesser) effect while in inventory as well. Like aggravating item works like big malus to stealth or like that.
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Old June 1, 2015, 09:00   #16
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Any plans for the curses? Sticky curse is bad game design and difficult to fix, my idea for that is "semi-sticky", you can take off the item, but you can't drop it. If you try it goes to inventory instead.

Items could have (some, lesser) effect while in inventory as well. Like aggravating item works like big malus to stealth or like that.
Ah, thank you - I had forgotten curses. My basic idea is something like this, but not exactly like - in particular, the ID bit would have to be rethought. And that would be for 4.1.
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Old June 1, 2015, 09:40   #17
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I'd really like to see more race-specific (and possibly class-specific) special abilities, like Dwarf treasure-sensing and Gnome wand-identification - I feel like those do a lot more to make playing a different race feel like a different experience than just stat bonuses or inherent resists.
What variant are those from? I love them!
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Old June 1, 2015, 09:56   #18
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What variant are those from? I love them!
Both are in Vanilla.
(Along with Hobbit's innate mushroom ID).
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Old June 1, 2015, 12:32   #19
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Both are in Vanilla.
(Along with Hobbit's innate mushroom ID).
Dwarf also gets digging bonus. I think.

What special abilities there could be? They should not be too powerful so that they do not alter difficulty too much.
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Old June 1, 2015, 15:01   #20
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Rogues need to be able to set traps and backstab things.
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