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Old April 11, 2017, 21:31   #11
DirtyHippy
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
One point - two-handed weapons only take up one slot. Calling them two-handed is simply flavour
Ha.

So I said to myself at several points, "maybe weapons noted as two handed weapons are really one handed in the game". But I never bothered trying one on. Mainly because when you call a weapon a "zweihander" you just kind of assume that it is a two handed weapon. The very existence of such a weapon tends to indicate the concept exists.
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Old April 12, 2017, 07:09   #12
Carnivean
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Originally Posted by DirtyHippy View Post
1) Identification sucks
This is the #1 reason I probably won't play Angband again. It was no longer fun during the prep period before I dropped to DL100.
There has been a significant change in identification in the nightly versions. These haven't made it to a full release version yet, but the nightlies are fairly stable, to the point that most people here would be playing the nightlies over the full release.

ID now revolves around learning a set of runes that cover all the effects and bonuses on items. In theory you start knowing nothing about items, but by the mid game you can instantly see what most items are without having to touch them. Combine this with a strong squelching system and the amount of garbage items that you need to look at should drop to approximately zero. There's even an option to remove the need to learn the runes (in the birth options).
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Old April 12, 2017, 08:03   #13
Ironshod Al
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Originally Posted by DirtyHippy View Post
Ha.

So I said to myself at several points, "maybe weapons noted as two handed weapons are really one handed in the game". But I never bothered trying one on. Mainly because when you call a weapon a "zweihander" you just kind of assume that it is a two handed weapon. The very existence of such a weapon tends to indicate the concept exists.
The character in my latest run wielded a short sword in one hand and an awl-pike in the other at some point. Of course, as a half-troll it seems slightly less weird. I'm a bit uncertain if the beaked axe is two-handed, but if it is, then the final setup before dying included dual-wielding a polearm and a spear.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized that this thread was about vanilla angband. I was linking to a PosChengband game. I don't think you can dual-wield in standard angband, so my character would be carrying a shield instead. Slightly more realistic for polearms, but still a problem for 2H swords and possibly flails.

This, however, is not remotely as weird as playing two guitars and a harmonica (all two-handed instruments) while chopping down trees with an axe (usually a two-handed action), which is possible in Cataclysm - Dark Days Ahead.

Last edited by Ironshod Al; April 12, 2017 at 08:30.
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Old April 12, 2017, 10:07   #14
Werbaer
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Originally Posted by DirtyHippy View Post
So I said to myself at several points, "maybe weapons noted as two handed weapons are really one handed in the game".
Angband doesn't count hands. Otherwise, you would have two sword-hands, two bow-hands, one shield-hand, and a latern-hand. And a total of 2 fingers on these hands.

Instead, you just have one slot for each type of equipment (except rings).
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Old April 12, 2017, 10:23   #15
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Angband doesn't count hands. Otherwise, you would have two sword-hands, two bow-hands, one shield-hand, and a latern-hand. And a total of 2 fingers on these hands.

Instead, you just have one slot for each type of equipment (except rings).
Basically you play as a Marilith
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Old April 14, 2017, 22:00   #16
luneya
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Originally Posted by DirtyHippy View Post

3) Uniques that don't drop. I'm pretty sure the elemental uniques don't drop anything, for example. In a game where everything revolves around items, fighting uniques that don't drop anything once you kill them is just irritating.

4) Weird uniques. Sometimes I felt like I came around a corner and "You see Darth Vader. You see Braveheart." I'm not a big LOTR guy, sure I've read the books and the movies, but a lot of these uniques seemed like they were pulled from other mythologies, and it just seemed...weird.
The monster set in the early versions was cribbed from D&D, with a few Tolkien references thrown in for flavor. There are still plenty of D&D-based common monsters running around, but the list of uniques is mostly thematically legit. Exceptions:
  • Father Christmas, but he's just a holiday Easter Egg.
  • Orfax and Boldor--yeeks as a species aren't actually part of anybody's mythos, but were apparently invented by the creators of the original Moria just so that they'd have a monster to use the symbol y.
  • Mughash--possibly a misspelling? Tolkien does have a named orc "Muzgash," who does not appear as a separate character in Angband.
  • Draebor and Lokkak--apparently invented by the Angband creators to fill out the list of Uniques in the early versions.
  • Medusa--Greek mythology, of course. She's found in pretty much all of the roguelikes. Fortunately for players, Angband (unlike, say, NetHack) doesn't allow anything to be actually turned to stone.
  • Vargo, Waldern, Quaker, and Ariel--The annoying elemental uniques, that are the main subject of your other complaint. I can't find any evidence of mythological origin for any of these. I'll happily endorse dropping this quartet from the game entirely. They really don't have any interesting function except for being another bunch of mid-level foes.
  • Phoenix--another creature out of standard mythology rather than Tolkien. Not quite the roguelike standard that Medusa is.
  • Lernaean Hydra--ditto.
  • Baphomet the Minotaur Lord--one of the few D&D-origin uniques that we haven't gotten around to replacing with something more thematic
  • Queen Ant, Cat Lord--frankly, these two are so generic that they can't be considered part of any specific mythos. There's certainly nothing thematically inappropriate about having ordinary animals on the monster list in addition to the creations of Morgoth and Sauron. Just think of these guys as more of the same.
  • Tselakus, the Dreadlord--another D&D import, I think.
  • Omarax, the Eye Tyrant--ditto.
  • Pazuzu, Lord of Air--yep, D&D again.
  • Polyphemus, the Blind Cyclops--okay, I'll concede that the Greek mythology inclusions are starting to get a bit ridiculous.
  • Qlzqqlzuup, the Emperor Quylthulg--like the yeeks, quylthulgs were introduced in the original Moria because the developers wanted to have monsters for all of the available letters.
  • Cantoras, the Skeletal Lord--while various forms of undead are legitimate parts of the Tolkien canon, drujs (including Cantoras) come from D&D. But they aren't obvious misfits unless you actually look up the history, as I'm doing now.
  • Vecna--another D&D undead lord. This one's too distinctively D&D to pass as Tolkien.
  • Tarrasque--pure D&D, but we can hardly drop the most powerful foe in the game. And all of the similarly-powerful entities in the Tolkien mythos are already used, so we can't just rename it either.
  • Atlas and Kronos--two more from Greek myth. But at least these are a bit more generic than Polyphemus.

Hmm, that's a bit more than I thought--about a quarter of the total list of uniques. But still, a quarter of the list being off-theme means that three quarters are fully appropriate, which represents a pretty impressive body of work by previous Angband devs. And of these non-thematic monsters, only a handful are really jarringly out-of-place. We might want to significantly reform the regular monster list, but I'm not too concerned about the uniques.
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Old April 14, 2017, 22:48   #17
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Pazuzu was a celestial being before he was imported to D&D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazuzu
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Old April 15, 2017, 00:13   #18
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Originally Posted by luneya View Post
And of these non-thematic monsters, only a handful are really jarringly out-of-place. We might want to significantly reform the regular monster list, but I'm not too concerned about the uniques.
I'd be most inclined to replace the Greek ones (although I kind of like The Phoenix).
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Old April 15, 2017, 00:47   #19
Pete Mack
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Tarrasque is also a creature out of French folklore.
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Old April 15, 2017, 01:13   #20
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I like the elemental uniques. They're one of your first introductions to the fact that not all enemies are worth fighting, and they create interesting tensions when they're placed in a vault (and thus threaten to trample all of the items in said vault if not dealt with delicately).

Regarding the Greek uniques, I feel like the non-giant ones are okay, just like it's okay to have sphinxes, manticores, chimerae, etc. They're "generic monsters" that show up in many settings. The giants/titans, though, are fairly specific excerpts from the Greek pantheon, and start feeling more out-of-place.

EDIT: fix typo, plus noting that I kind of feel like fighting Kronos is only very slightly less bizarre than fighting, say, Zeus would be.

Last edited by Derakon; April 15, 2017 at 01:35.
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