Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 12, 2010, 16:29   #1
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Why are artifacts indestructable?

I think the indestructability of artifacts is a holdover from the days where preserve mode wasn't an option and certainly before it was a default. As of now, there are ways to destruct artifacts but they don't make much sense (leave it on the floor when you leave the level, sell in a store)

I think this makes little common sense and more importantly has a negative effect on gameplay. Here are the problems I see with the current way artifacts are handled.

1. Destroying items is a test for artifacts
2. Failure to destruct gives the {special} pseudo even if the item has not been picked up. I don't actually know if this artifact will reappear.
3. *destruction* does not remove artifacts allowing for an easy way to take the best loot out of a greater vault with no danger.

I propose the following changes.

1. Allow artifacts to be destroyed like anything else.
2. Artifacts that are ID'd (wielded, thrown or anything) and left on the level or in town can reappear in the dungeon.
3. Artifacts sold to a store are gone forever *or* don't allow the sale of artifacts.
4. Keep a list of destoyed/sold artifacts (i.e. museum. Player history pretty much takes care of this already)
5. Artifacts in a destruction zone disappear from the level, but can be regenerated, like any other artifact. (earthquakes do not affect artifacts)

I think this removes the majority of dissonances from the current way artifacts are handled. It leaves (at least) one glaring problem though. How do you deal with artifacts that are modified from their original form. If they were enchanted, disenchanted, or uncursed and get left in the dungeon, if you find them again, are they in their original form or in the modified form?
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 16:36   #2
tummychow
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 93
tummychow is on a distinguished road
I'd say that artifacts should only be destructable if they keep their status of being impossible to destroy by attacks (like getting burned up or something). That's a given though.
I'd also say that artifacts should respawn as they were before - they recover their original state. I dislke the idea of artifacts being permanently disenchanted even though it could be possible.
tummychow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 16:43   #3
konijn_
Hellband maintainer
 
konijn_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, the Big Apple
Age: 44
Posts: 367
Donated: $120
konijn_ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I think the indestructability of artifacts is a holdover from the days where preserve mode wasn't an option and certainly before it was a default. As of now, there are ways to destruct artifacts but they don't make much sense (leave it on the floor when you leave the level, sell in a store)

I think this makes little common sense and more importantly has a negative effect on gameplay. Here are the problems I see with the current way artifacts are handled.
<snip>
You proposed changes would make the game more realistic and harder/longer to play. Needless to say, I don't really like them

T.
__________________
* Are you ready for something else ? Hellband 0.8.8 is out! *
konijn_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 18:17   #4
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by konijn_ View Post
You proposed changes would make the game more realistic and harder/longer to play. Needless to say, I don't really like them

T.
I don't see any real increase in difficulty except for changing the way destruction works. Personally, I think this is an abuse anyway.

I think destroying items to find artifacts is a faulty game mechanism. However, I think recognizing artifacts on pickup, or remaking heavy curses so that wield testing is more reasonable are perfectly good options.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 19:11   #5
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
I think there might be a ticket for artifacts being sensed on pickup. If that gets implemented, there is no reason for testing using destruction.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 20:54   #6
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
If artifacts get sensed on pickup, then my only remaining concern is monsters that can crush items as they move. That would need to "remove" the artifact la Destruction, not actually destroy it, or else a rogue elemental in a vault could permanently remove gear from your options without you even realizing it...
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 21:37   #7
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
A rogue elemental in a vault could permanently remove gear from your options without you even realizing it...
That's way too harsh, even then.

If a rogue elemental destroys all the artifacts in a (partial) vault, what's the point of going in anyway? Even if it's possible to destroy artifacts--of which I am not at all convinced--they should only be destroyed by player actions.
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12, 2010, 21:52   #8
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,023
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
That's way too harsh, even then.

If a rogue elemental destroys all the artifacts in a (partial) vault, what's the point of going in anyway? Even if it's possible to destroy artifacts--of which I am not at all convinced--they should only be destroyed by player actions.
I agree with this.


@derakon I don't understand why 'sensing on pickup' leads to 'artifacts should be destroyable by monsters.' Can you explain why one implies the other?
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13, 2010, 00:55   #9
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I agree with this. @derakon I don't understand why 'sensing on pickup' leads to 'artifacts should be destroyable by monsters.' Can you explain why one implies the other?
I'll admit I didn't explain my logic fully. Basically, it goes like this:

* The reason why artifacts can't be destroyed is so they can easily be recognized by people who are destroying all gear they find.
* If artifacts are sensed on pickup (or ideally on entering the tile they're on, for players that interact with stacks on the floor), then you no longer need to try to destroy them to recognize them. Thus it's OK for artifacts to be destructible...
* ...except that there are monsters that can destroy artifacts (and, for that matter, spell effects). That could lead to players losing artifacts they didn't even know they "had", which is bad.

In short, as long as the only ways to destroy artifacts are a) by selling them, and b) by using the 'k' command, I'm fine with artifacts being destructible.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13, 2010, 01:38   #10
Zikke
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,068
Zikke is on a distinguished road
I don't think that the reason artifacts are indestructible is so people can easily find them. I think destroying items to find them is a result of the fact that they are indestructible.
__________________
A(3.1.0b) CWS "Fyren_V" NEW L:50 DL:127 A++ R+++ Sp+ w:The Great Axe of Eonwe
A/FA W H- D c-- !f PV+++ s? d P++ M+
C- S+ I- !So B ac++ GHB? SQ? !RQ V F:
Zikke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cursed Artifacts z118 Vanilla 14 February 10, 2010 18:18
Endgame artifacts tummychow Vanilla 9 October 1, 2009 22:55
To play with artifacts or not? Malak Darkhunter Vanilla 18 May 23, 2008 08:30
Too many artifacts Colbey Vanilla 5 March 29, 2008 18:19
Is there any way to know what Artifacts I had? Aldous Vanilla 2 May 24, 2007 05:50


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.