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Old December 25, 2014, 20:11   #21
HallucinationMushroom
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Wow, that is an amazing feat! Congrats man.

Question though... does Morgoth's earthquakes ever cause damage to himself? I don't really know the mechanic behind that (among many other things), but doesn't rubble rain down? If you could manage a way for Morgoth to kill himself, that would be amazing. Kind of like how superheroes kill bad guys inadvertently. Don't know about Sauron though.
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Old December 25, 2014, 22:07   #22
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Originally Posted by HallucinationMushroom View Post
Question though... does Morgoth's earthquakes ever cause damage to himself? I don't really know the mechanic behind that (among many other things), but doesn't rubble rain down? If you could manage a way for Morgoth to kill himself, that would be amazing. Kind of like how superheroes kill bad guys inadvertently. Don't know about Sauron though.
I don't think that earthquakes can affect the square the caster is in; I'm almost positive I would remember a message about Morgoth getting crushed by his own earthquake.

In any event, though, monsters, including uniques, aren't allowed to kill uniques. They can only take them down to 1HP; the player has to deliver the coup de grace.
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Old December 25, 2014, 22:29   #23
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Oh okay, good to know!
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Old December 27, 2014, 02:28   #24
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Congratulations! That's a heck of an achievement, and I'm willing to spot you the two accidental kills.
Appreciate the indulgence on the accidents! :-)

Re: the killing of uniques, I assume the logic tracks who is "acting" at the moment damage is given, so even if you had a colusses melee you and cause an earthquake, that earthquake wouldn't be able to kill Morgoth...would be interesting to know for sure if anyone who knows the code cares to comment.

Not that it much matters, since the spirit of the challenge is more a "pacifist mode" than based on what the internal kill counter shows. I imagine you could win with zero known kills by delivering the killing blow to Sauron/Morgoth while blind and non-telepathic -- "You hit it. You have slain it. CONGRATULATIONS..." That would actually be a good sequence for the funny messages thread...
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Old December 27, 2014, 09:57   #25
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Not that it much matters, since the spirit of the challenge is more a "pacifist mode" than based on what the internal kill counter shows. I imagine you could win with zero known kills by delivering the killing blow to Sauron/Morgoth while blind and non-telepathic -- "You hit it. You have slain it. CONGRATULATIONS..." That would actually be a good sequence for the funny messages thread...
Might be feasible if you remove pBlind and drink a potion of blindness just before delivering the killing blow? (Well, that and removing any esp-granting item.)

Well done, btw! This was quite an achievement!
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Old December 28, 2014, 14:54   #26
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Very impressive!
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Old January 4, 2015, 00:24   #27
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just insane

Dear Lord Tom, get a life

This is an amazingly performance i can just applaud to.

I got a couple of questions tho:
1. What is TO? (teleport other?)
2. How can you manage to kill Sauron and Morgoth? I just won the game as mage, and even with clvl50 i have around 850 hp and around 400 sp. With top artifact Equipment i still burn a lot of healings and restore mana potions / staves / rods.
3. If you are true to yourself you have to confirm that you have more than 4 kills. I don't know where the Monsters end up you banish or mass banish, but i would doubt that they can live there. So i think those must be counted as killed as well.

Nevertheless an extreme Performance.

Cheers,
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Old January 4, 2015, 00:49   #28
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Amazing. (Me too!)
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Old January 4, 2015, 01:23   #29
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Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
Dear Lord Tom, get a life

This is an amazingly performance i can just applaud to.

I got a couple of questions tho:
1. What is TO? (teleport other?)
Yes.

Quote:
2. How can you manage to kill Sauron and Morgoth? I just won the game as mage, and even with clvl50 i have around 850 hp and around 400 sp. With top artifact Equipment i still burn a lot of healings and restore mana potions / staves / rods.
Early on, levels are an incredibly significant part of your character's power. Later, though (basically levels 30-50) pretty much all they do is give you more HP/SP and access to better spells; equipment becomes vastly more important to your power, for non-mages/priests. As long as you have at least 30 speed and 600 HP, you can survive a turn with Morgoth in LOS; from there, careful play and appropriate gear can net you the victory.

Quote:
3. If you are true to yourself you have to confirm that you have more than 4 kills. I don't know where the Monsters end up you banish or mass banish, but i would doubt that they can live there. So i think those must be counted as killed as well.
I'd say this is open to interpretation. Personally I think of Banish/Mass Banish as being mass-teleport-level spells. More questionable is monsters that are removed from the level due to Word of Destruction or being crushed by earthquakes -- they aren't killed as far as game mechanics go, but "realistically" they probably aren't alive any more either.
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Old January 5, 2015, 02:10   #30
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I'd say this is open to interpretation. Personally I think of Banish/Mass Banish as being mass-teleport-level spells. More questionable is monsters that are removed from the level due to Word of Destruction or being crushed by earthquakes -- they aren't killed as far as game mechanics go, but "realistically" they probably aren't alive any more either.
I never thought I'd get into deep philosophical/ethical arguments in a game where the player wantonly kills happy drunks and street urchins, BUT...

I think of Banish/Mass Banish the same way...not really killing. I do suppose destruction theoretically kills non-uniques, though they aren't counted as kills even if visible, you don't get experience or items, so it's equivalent as far as the game mechanics go. The challenge would still be doable without destruction, but the final boss battles would be a couple notches tougher.

One other ethically-laden strat that I didn't use was encouraging monsters to kill other monsters via breath attacks -- in which case they aren't counted as kills and you don't get exp but you both get rid of monsters and can get items from them. I definitely mused on getting e.g. fire immunity and luring a Great Hell Wyrm into a troll pit or something. I never intentionally did this, though, since it seemed against the spirit of things.
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