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Old June 13, 2008, 03:09   #11
Jude
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I'm a Zangband player and I'm all for this.

Definitely take out those stupid lake levels and all the other awful types that appear in the newer versions.

Also...I LIKE more randomness in items. Sure sometimes you'll get an overpowered item...but sometimes you get breathe-killed too. It's all up to the RNG. I think having the chance of finding something uber makes the game more interesting, as long as it doesn't happen very often.

One of my favorite things about Z is the Chaos Warrior, which I've almost always played as. I really like the high risk high reward aspect of it. You get a bunch of sweet items and stat boosts, but you also run the risk of bad mutations (and you often erase good ones trying to get rid of them, or just put up with them) or getting a weapon blasted or just straight up getting murdered. This class works pretty well as it is, but I think the introduction of a bit more of that type of thing into the game as a whole would be good (with less extremity obviously - a player choosing Chaos Warrior is voluntarily taking those higher risks, but another player shouldn't have them forced...but a bit more "chaos" in the game would be fun I think.)
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Old June 17, 2008, 14:03   #12
Mangojuice
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Here's my philosophy on random artifacts and ego items.

An artifact's power is approximated by adding up points for its various powers. Different powers are worth different amounts of points. The old system involved choosing a certain number of powers at random after possibly applying a "theme" (e.g. Westernesse). My system involves choosing a number of points for the artifact and then trying to attain it.

You can still get powerful artifacts, definitely. But I think the usefulness of an artifact will be more accurately predicted by that up-front choice of the number of points you get. (There's a flip side here -- I think my algorithm also prevents random artifacts from being weaker than they should be also).

As for Ego items, my philosphy is that there's no reason Ego items should be so weak as to have only one or two flags. But they should be sensible combinations of powers that balance the game, and thus much more mundane-seeming and predictable than artifacts. For instance, I am introducing weapons of *Flame* which are not only fire-branded but also grant resist fire and activate for fire bolts (fairly infrequently) and give permanent light. This is probably better than some very weak artifacts if you had no other abilities on your other equipment. On the other hand, if you're trying to cover all your resistances or you want to slay both demons and animals, or if you want a utility spell activation, you're going to have to go with an artifact.

The changes I'm working on now are about quests. Quests were fun in the older versions (2.2.x) but they got nerfed badly in recent ones. My version will feature more types of quests, and many different quest-granting buildings, including guilds, couriers, keeps, and castles. Quests will also be realistically doable, as opposed to the current system where they are practically impossible (except message quests).
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Old June 19, 2008, 04:36   #13
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I've been a Zangband fan for many years. It's one of my favourite variants, maybe THE favourite. I'd love to see more work done on it. Try to keep it crazy though. That's part of its charm.

One thing I've always wanted to see are 'high' brands on weapons - Nether, Nexus, Chaos, etc. Could make for some interesting new Ego items. Might need careful weighting for randarts to stop them getting too powerful too easily, but still workable I think. If there's a variant where these'd most fittingly crop up, it's Zangband.

On 'lake' levels - I think a toning down of these would be best, so that rather than great rivers of water, acid or lava, the level would be dotted with smaller pools of the stuff instead. No bigger than 30 cells across and averaging half that, maybe. Similar deal for the rubble levels perhaps.

Maybe just for a bit of consistency add in some monsters corresponding to each of the playable races that aren't already there. We meet Dark Elves and Nibelungs in the dungeons - how about Klackons, Sprites, etc?
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Old June 27, 2008, 19:02   #14
Jude
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There already are Chaos-branded weapons, although I don't usually use them because they seem to cause earthquakes more often than not and I hate those. (However, as a chaos warrior, I get given them all the time as gifts so they're a big cash cow). Nexus and Nether brands would be interesting.
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Old June 28, 2008, 09:27   #15
AR_chie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jude View Post
Nexus and Nether brands would be interesting.
nexus ? - I don't think so... I suppose hit with that weapon could blink/teleport/banish from level monsters... I hate that effect.

New ideas:
- potion of curing - it's to similiar to !of cure critical wounds - maybe it should only remove confusion, poison, blind etc... without raising HP
- high priest class - new class that is similiar to high mage - there is such one in branding patch (I hate carrying bag with libraries of 2 kind of magic)

Last edited by AR_chie; June 28, 2008 at 09:37.
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Old June 30, 2008, 20:16   #16
Mangojuice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR_chie View Post
nexus ? - I don't think so... I suppose hit with that weapon could blink/teleport/banish from level monsters... I hate that effect.

New ideas:
- potion of curing - it's to similiar to !of cure critical wounds - maybe it should only remove confusion, poison, blind etc... without raising HP
- high priest class - new class that is similiar to high mage - there is such one in branding patch (I hate carrying bag with libraries of 2 kind of magic)
That's a good point about potion of curing. Actually, I think I may just remove it. Right now the only difference is that !curing removes hallucination but !cure crit doesn't. So maybe I'll just add that ability to !cure crit.

High priest class: Nah. Truth is, priests already get a better spell progression than Mages in Life magic. If you hate having two schools, then
don't use your second school Or just play a paladin - they only get one school, life/death, but they can cast all the spells in their school.

As for advanced brands: there are already Trump Weapons (which activate for teleportation and give nexus resistance), Vampiric Weapons (like a nether brand but better), and weapons of Chaos. I'm a bit reluctant to go to more advanced brands; I think the difficulty in obtaining rare type attacks is an important element of game balance.
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Old July 1, 2008, 23:07   #17
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This was discussed elsewhere...why not make mushrooms better/more interesting? Instead of just having them duplicate potions, they could have more extensive tradeoffs/disadvantages or the ability to do something cool with them like brew them into potions of your own or idk.
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Old July 6, 2008, 15:30   #18
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Quote:
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This was discussed elsewhere...why not make mushrooms better/more interesting? Instead of just having them duplicate potions, they could have more extensive tradeoffs/disadvantages or the ability to do something cool with them like brew them into potions of your own or idk.
I've never played Z, but love Amber (hooked on FA right now).

Mushrooms do seem to be a duplication of potions. Their main purpose seems to be to give you a new set of items to identify.

Perhaps they could have 'simple traits' with random strengths and durations. For example a "shroom of healing' may heal 10 or 200 HP. I 'shroom of strength' would give a boost of 1-10 for 10-200 turns. Give them a better chance of being more powerful the deeper they are found. Don't reveal the specifics of the effect to the player (even through ID, maybe just weak,avg,strong).

Back in the old days of the C64, Ultima IV had you mix reagents to come up with your standard spells. Another option would be to let you mix (or brew) mushrooms together to come up with new and unpredictable results. Spellcasters should be better at this.
Example: You have two or more relatively useless types of mushrooms. Mix them together and see what happens. Results should not revealed to the player until the resulting reduction is eaten (6 shrooms mixed together might produce 2 identical mixtures). Cursed mushrooms would be likely to produce bad effects but add POWER and DURATION to the mix. 'Helpful' mushrooms add good properties but not much power. Known mixtures could be saved in monster memory for re-creation (although impurities in the shrooms would prevent an EXACT duplication, modified duration or strength, or on rare occasions even a know mixture would fail). Some mixture are incompatible and would simply 'fail' and work as a poison/blind/slow would (these would not be saved).

A third (and probably a lot easier to implement) option is to add impurities to the shrooms. Change the description to "a mossy (insert color here) mushroom". Mossy would indicate to the player that this is an impure shroom. Only reveal the mushrooms main property through ID. It's secondary and other effects should be weaker and shouldn't be revealed to the player.

Fourth option, have the potency of mushrooms weaken over time (unless specially preserved). They would have VERY POWERFUL effects when 'fresh' but would degrade over time (at first quickly, then more slowly, until eventually the would become ROTTEN, that means 'eat at your own risk for minimal effects'.)

I'd like to see some change to mushrooms in FA too...NICK.
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Old July 6, 2008, 18:41   #19
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If you really want to reactivate Zang, that would be great. I'm probably at minority, but I love the way wilderness, cities, shops and dungeons were implemented in later versions (i.e. 2.7.2-2.7.5). There were some drastic problems with balance, but overall total randomness in world layout is a great thing. Themed dungeons, small dungeons, limited in number of levels and/or in level size, maybe towers (i.e. dungeons up), many types of different quests.

Some of this was implemented, some was going to be, and some would just fit in. Too bad, it never got finished. Maybe this time?...

So, anyway, good luck with your project.
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Old July 6, 2008, 22:22   #20
Mangojuice
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Originally Posted by Arendil View Post
If you really want to reactivate Zang, that would be great. I'm probably at minority, but I love the way wilderness, cities, shops and dungeons were implemented in later versions (i.e. 2.7.2-2.7.5). There were some drastic problems with balance, but overall total randomness in world layout is a great thing. Themed dungeons, small dungeons, limited in number of levels and/or in level size, maybe towers (i.e. dungeons up), many types of different quests.

Some of this was implemented, some was going to be, and some would just fit in. Too bad, it never got finished. Maybe this time?...

So, anyway, good luck with your project.
I think you'll like my variant then. I also like the random wilderness; my beef with recent version was that *themed* dungeon-diving can get a little repetitive (how many Bloodletters of Khorne must one kill?)

My version will have farms, inns on the roads between towns, random quests of many different types, and level-type "feelings" in the Wilderness, so you don't wander into a really hard area without warning.
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