Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 21, 2013, 11:54   #71
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
I find "playing optimally" not fun because <u>that</u> requires that you limit what you do. I usually play for fun, not so much to win. Actually winning the game is so anticlimactic to me that I find myself grinding in lower levels just to prolong the game a bit. I'm usually way overprepared when I finally go after M.

This is also why I like 3.5 new rooms and stuff very refreshing, it is now again fun to just explore the dungeon.
That's a good perspective. I'm a very competitive person in games. (Outside tabletop roleplaying games.) Perhaps Angband was designed for explorers, not optimizers?

I was more of an explorer before, and I recall enjoying Moria a lot.
Mikko Lehtinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 12:01   #72
DaviddesJ
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Burlingame CA
Age: 57
Posts: 254
DaviddesJ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko Lehtinen View Post
So I'd have to craft some sort of ethical rules for myself before I could really enjoy Angband.
I don't find I have to deliberately make up rules for myself that limit what I do, in order to enjoy Angband. I don't have to make up a rule against "townscumming", it just lacks interest and doesn't get me anything I can't get in other, more interesting ways, so I don't have any desire to do it in the first place. Winning the game isn't going to be determined by how many magic arrows I can scum in the town, it's just not worth the trouble.

If I could click my mouse as many times as I want and get 1 gold per click, I wouldn't sit at my terminal clicking for hours even though it's "optimal". Not because I create a rule against it, but just because, you know, I don't have any desire to do that. Life is too short to sit around clicking a mouse. My own personal time is by far the most limited and valuable resource in any game that I play.

Last edited by DaviddesJ; August 21, 2013 at 12:07.
DaviddesJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 12:01   #73
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
A robust scroring system, like the one in Sangband, allows me to play suicidally and still pretend that it's optimal. Porting that to Angband might be enough to make Angband fun for me.

I know I'm seriously niche in my "fun" definition.
Mikko Lehtinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 12:02   #74
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaviddesJ View Post
I think the solution for you is to just play a different game. There are lots of other games that are more tuned to your personal preferences.
Yeah, and that's what I've been doing, too. I mostly play my own variant, Halls of Mist, that is perfectly tuned to my preferences.
Mikko Lehtinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 12:11   #75
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaviddesJ View Post
I think the solution for you is to just play a different game. There are lots of other games that are more tuned to your personal preferences.
A little addition: I've loved to read about the way Derakon and others play the game nowadays, diving aggressively and going for a quick win. I might be able to adapt that playstyle in Angband and really enjoy myself. (But I'm not good enough to actually win.)
Mikko Lehtinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 12:16   #76
Mikko Lehtinen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,246
Mikko Lehtinen is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaviddesJ View Post
Life is too short to sit around clicking a mouse. My own personal time is by far the most limited and valuable resource in any game that I play.
IMO using player boredom as a resource is bad game design. I prefer games that don't do that at all.
Mikko Lehtinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 14:32   #77
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
My same old 2 cents.

1) I don't like that no-selling is on by default;
2) I think no-selling is a good idea, but ruined by increased $ drops;
3) I think the devs, on some occasions, act as developers rather than maintainers.

No selling as the default option is not only wrong in light of Angband's history, but more importantly in means that future changes will be biased upon the (now default, and IMO preverted) no-selling option.

Despite the opinions of others of whom I have respect for, I think the gold drops are absurdly high. Devs seem to have based the increased compensation upon a player who sells everything in sight, and then erred on the high side of that. It devalues gold even further in game in which it's mostly irrelevant already.

Angband has plenty of known, existing problems, balance, and UI issue that need maintenance. Instead, "devs" rather then going after the old problems (for any number of reasons, lack of expertise, lack of motivation), create potential new ones.

[nothing new here]
If you don't have expertise or motivation to maintain Angband, then don't be a maintainer. If you want to do your on thing, start a variant. If my general understanding of GIT is accurate, just about anybody can put forth patches to the codebase, they just need to be OK'd and integrated by a (for lack of a better title) maintainer. Let the players with the motivation and expertise do the work, and leave the rest of the game alone.
[/nothing new here]
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 15:07   #78
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
Let the players with the motivation and expertise do the work, and leave the rest of the game alone.
And, for what must be like the 5th time in this thread alone, "True Angband" is a community consensus. If you don't like what the current Vanilla is, then make a branch off of whatever version, make your changes, and publish it as the new True Angband. The fact that nobody has done this indicates that the only people who are capable and motivated to make changes are:

1) already on the dev team,
2) already working on their own variants (i.e. not trying to make a new Vanilla), or
3) quit the community in a huff (i.e. Eddie)

The only reason why the dev team version of Angband is labeled as "Vanilla" is because the community calls it that. If the community wanted to declare, say, NPPAngband as the new Vanilla, that would be their prerogative. Nobody is doing this.

Frankly, I'm getting sick of non-coders saying that the dev team should quit. If you don't like what the dev team is doing, then play an earlier version. If you still want new versions, but with different changes? That's your problem. You want a better maintainer? Step up, learn to code, and take over. Plenty of people learned to code by modifying the Angband codebase. You wouldn't even be the first person to go from "can't code" to "Vanilla developer"! In the meantime, if you won't do that and you can't provide constructive criticism, then I invite you to go shout your complaints into a hole in the ground, because you'll do much more good that way.

The dev team has demonstrated many times in the past that they are willing to listen to constructive criticism. We have threads every bit as big as this one that are debating the minutiae of how some feature ought to work or if it belongs in Vanilla at all. Don't try to pretend they aren't reasonable people.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 15:59   #79
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 8,463
Donated: $60
Nick will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
3) I think the devs, on some occasions, act as developers rather than maintainers.
I would say always. That's the attitude they are taking. It is quite valid to say you don't like that, but the devteam have taken the attitude, as enunciated by takkaria some time ago, that just maintaining leads to stagnation and death.

This can, and probably will, be argued back and forth endlessly, but I don't see the situation changing any time soon. Angband is not a fixed idea that was handed down on stone tablets in perfect form - it's a game that a bunch of uni students came up with a while ago in their spare time. Any time one of the originals checks in here, they tend to say "Wow, Angband's still going. Cool." and then leave because they have lives now. I also think it's cool that there are still people playing and developing and arguing about it. It's a sign of life. Relax and enjoy it. Or go back and play 3.0.9 and complain about the crap interface. It's all good.

I have a feeling that I had a point when I started this post, but whatever. It's 1am here, why won't you let me sleep?
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2013, 16:06   #80
scud
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sarf Laaaahdon
Posts: 323
scud is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
It's 1am here, why won't you let me sleep?
Because you know that the moment you fall asleep Australia will slump to 221 all out.
scud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to use? What to sell? Equip me for Sauron Moriwen Vanilla 5 November 7, 2012 08:20
if you like to sell stuff PowerDiver Vanilla 4 July 4, 2011 06:19
No Sell - I am convinced Bahman Rabii Vanilla 168 July 1, 2011 10:09
Should I be bothering to collect loot to sell? BlackFlame Vanilla 14 October 5, 2009 08:36
[V] 3.1.0 bug - !berserk won't sell Donald Jonker Vanilla 1 January 9, 2009 15:41


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.