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Old May 18, 2020, 18:55   #21
EpicMan
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I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.

The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.

There are an infinite number of dungeon levels you can visit, so there is basically no downside to abandoning a level, you will eventually find whatever you missed on a future level.
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Old May 19, 2020, 04:06   #22
mrfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicMan View Post
I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.
There are other ways to play than the dive, dive, dive method. I tend to fully explore levels and try to kill everything. I don't dive beyond my abilities but I recognize when I'm in trouble and TO or escape. My games take a long time but I have a fair number of wins (where a win is killing all uniques not just Morgoth).

Quote:
The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.
There's risk everywhere, turning the corner carries risk. IMO, fully exploring levels is not bad, as the monsters who appear are usually easily dealt with. But learning when you are in danger and need to retreat or leave is key.
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Old May 19, 2020, 15:34   #23
Sky
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my latest runs have a win% of .. uh, rough guess, 30%. Including early fails.
I don't dive, or rather, i dive in steps.

1. grind the early levels for launcher, basic IDs, magic weapon, FA, and stock on gear.

2. dive to money depth - where you start finding staves and wands - so you have enough to buy something OOD from BM

3. dive to DL25/35 depending on character once you have basic resist, SI, FA, detection, a stack of !Spd, a stack each of CSW and CCW, x3 magic launcher, sSTR and enough STR to dig granite, branded weapon; and kill early uniques (orc captains) for first artifact drops

4. dive to DL45 and stay there until you are reasonably buffed with stat potions and have plenty of TO.

5. after TO and stat buff, you can dive to DL98 and grind vaults.
I really like to have HL by then but can do without if i have great TO and many RLL.


slower descents are still better because - if you kill uniques as they show up - you can fairly safely TS around the map, while if you dive really quick you get to DL70+ and the map is stuffed full of 1-shot uniques such as Arien and Osse. Also, along the way they will drop useful artifacts and consumables; but, it's not as boring to play, which is in fact a factor on how often you die.
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Old May 29, 2020, 16:01   #24
moosferatu
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I have a new character going now that I think is off to a good start: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

I finally had a ranger that was lucky enough to find a decent bow early, and it's made a huge difference in play. My stealth is still awesome, but it doesn't matter nearly as much since this character can bring the damage.

However, unlike my other characters, this one is sorely lacking in resistances. I particularly feel nervous about not even having see invisible. I was considering temporarily swapping out Totila for Elvagil until I was able to find another source for see invisible. My character is lacking in strength, so carrying both isn't really a great option at this point. Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?
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Old May 29, 2020, 20:44   #25
Sky
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Originally Posted by moosferatu View Post
Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?
+3 Spd and SI.

At DL30 you will run with some frequency into stat-draining invisible monsters and if you get your STR drained you can just die right there and then (due to the Spd reduction that comes from carrying weight); getting your DEX drained is no fun either, more so because it comes from a crummy little monster that given no xp.
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Old June 7, 2020, 20:07   #26
moosferatu
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This character seems to be developing very well!

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

Deepest I've been. DL 39 was a real coup where I just picked both Aglarang and The Short Bow of Amrod up off the ground completely unguarded.

I'm a bit disappointed I haven't found my second book yet. Is this worth worrying about? Will it only spawn within a certain depth range?

I picked up the Arkenstone off the last level. I hadn't seen it before and was amused that the level only had a 5 level feel. Seems pretty great too me... Or maybe it's just not that rare?

[Edit] If/when I find additional books, is there any reason not to just learn every spell you're able to?

Last edited by moosferatu; June 7, 2020 at 20:30.
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Old June 10, 2020, 18:24   #27
whartung
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I read somewhere that if you have a digger in your inventory, then it automatically gets swapped when digging?

That doesn't seem to be happening in 4.2.0-dirty that I'm running.

Is the expectation wrong?

I have a Shovel of Digging in my bag, and when I look at the turns consumed when digging, it's matching what it says my Morningstar will do and not what the Shovel says it will do.

Do I need to inscribe it or anything?
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Old June 10, 2020, 18:28   #28
DavidMedley
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It's worked for me in the past... there's been some comments that it doesn't work if you have 2 diggers in inventory, but that doesn't sound like the case here. If you wield a blessed weapon as a holy class or a weapon that's too heavy you'll get repeated messages as you switch back and forth for every turn of digging.
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Old June 11, 2020, 16:40   #29
whartung
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Does a "Ring of Digging" count as more than one Digger? I may have had one in my bag. If it will "auto swap" a Ring of Digging, then I'll just carry that instead of the Shovel and save the weight.

So, i tested it. I think it works. Clearly the numbers when inspecting the items are averages, not absolutes. When it says 12 turns for granite, that's some range as I'm getting different numbers.

And, no, the digging ring doesn't swap as far as I can tell, or confuse the swap logic.
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Old June 16, 2020, 16:32   #30
whartung
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Does Teleport have any guarantee as to distance?

When monsters teleport me away, I seem to end up in a far corner. In fact, I've ended up in roughly the same place more than once on the same level.

With a Phase Door, I'm pretty sure it's a random spot within, like, 10-20 squares, but it's still possible that you barely move at all.

Just curious if there's any actual guarantee that you'll be ported some reasonable distance away (both self teleport and teleport other), or is it simply less likely to be close.
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