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Old September 23, 2021, 02:38   #1
Armos
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FrogComposBand newbie assistance

Hey all, I'm pretty new to roguelikes and have been trying a TON of them. So far, FrogComposBand feels right. I'm trying to find a good entry point. I played a bit on beginner and wanted a longer game so I started playing normal mode. I'm looking for some pointers on some beginner friendly setups to try some of the different play styles.

So far I have a lv 22 Amberite Ninja. It is VERY easy going so far. I love being able to work in the dark.

I've tried a few others.. a Dark Elf mage.. Chaos/Nature. A few types of warriors..

Can anyone recommend some beginner friendly race/class combos for the major playstyles? Magic, Ranged, Melee, and any other types that one way deem newbie friendly.

What does the score value on gear mean?

Is there a way I can see which armor/weapon types my race/class can use? As a ninja I mostly just try equipping random stuff and hope it doesn't say "Icky Wield"

If I'm a magic user, is there any downside to standing in a spot and practicing spells to become more proficient? Obviously I'd have to watch for hunger.. but are there diminishing returns if I just stand there and spam a detection spell, for example? Or offensive magic.. can I level it by hurling spells at nothing?

I'm a little unclear on how learning spells works.. my chaos/nature mage for example.. is there anything stopping me from buying a spellbook from another school of magic and learning?

Lastly, the help section in frogcomposband is like... REALLY good. Best of any RL i've seen.. but are there any decent online references for this wonderful variant?

Thanks all!
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Old September 23, 2021, 05:59   #2
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Originally Posted by Armos View Post
Can anyone recommend some beginner friendly race/class combos for the major playstyles? Magic, Ranged, Melee, and any other types that one way deem newbie friendly.
For melee, Warrior is a simple option, but if you want a bit more spice in your character, try a Weaponsmith, Samurai, Ninja or Rune-Knight. All of them are very strong classes, and not too hard to play as a newbie.

The easiest ranged option is a shooting-oriented Weaponmaster, but weaponmasters are among the very strongest classes, so using one might make the game feel easier than it typically is. If you want to avoid that, I'd recommend picking a non-specific class and simply kitting it for archery. Almost any class will do for this purpose, something like a Paladin with the Death realm might be suitable for a new player.

Mages are a bit less newbie-friendly in general, but something like an Armageddon/Sorcery mage or yellow-mage should be strong and fairly accessible.

Race selection depends not only on the class, but also on your style of play. High-XP races like demigods, Archons, Half-Titans, Klackons etc. are strong options suitable for any class, but they can also make the game feel slower because of the slower leveling-up, so ask yourself if you're okay with that or not. Half-Orc is a fairly strong race that also levels up fast, and the demigod talent at level 30 gives it flavor. (Note that slower leveling-up makes more of a difference if you're using spells or magic in some way; a strong race at a lower CL might be mostly capable of the same things as a weaker race at a higher CL, but spells are strictly tied to the CL specifically. Moreover, melee-oriented characters tend to have a fairly linear HP gain, while magical characters gain more of their HP at high CLs.)

For personalities I'd just recommending avoiding Munchkin and Sexy, and probably Split as well. Sexy is fun but not newbie-friendly, and Split usually plays weaker than people expect, especially with a lot of personalities in play. You may also want to avoid Fragile

Quote:
What does the score value on gear mean?
It is the game's estimate of how valuable the item is. It also has some practical effects, like determining buying/selling prices for the object and affecting reforging. Lists of known objects on the level (the ]/O command) sort the items by value, with the most valuable items near the top.

Don't blindly follow the game's estimates; use gear that meets your character's specific needs. (Also, keep in mind the formula behind the estimates isn't always perfect; some artifacts, like the Cloak of Merry and the Small Sword 'Sting', almost always punch far above their weight.)
High-value artifacts are usually worth at least storing at home, though, especially if their value is high compared to other items in the same slot. If nothing else, they may make a good reforge source.

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Is there a way I can see which armor/weapon types my race/class can use? As a ninja I mostly just try equipping random stuff and hope it doesn't say "Icky Wield"
For ninjas there are several reasons why an item might be unsuitable:

- It's an icky weapon. For ninjas, there's an easy way to check whether a weapon type is icky: press ~ for knowledge menu, then P to look at the proficiency list, then M to toggle mode to proficiency cap display. Anything with a cap of [Sk] or [Ma] is not icky, while weapons with [Be] and [Un] caps are icky. (Note that the specific details of this advice only apply to ninjas and ninja-lawyers; many other classes can use weapons with [Be] caps quite well, and even weapons with [Un] caps often aren't technically icky, though they're still practically never recommended for use.)
- It's a shield. Ninjas shouldn't use a shield at all.
- It puts your total armor weight too high. Ninjas have a level-dependent total armor weight cap (12.5 lbs plus 0.2 lbs per character level) which should on no account be exceeded; but if a particular armor puts you over the limit, that doesn't necessarily mean the armor is useless. The answer might be shuffling a different armor out to lose weight, or simply waiting to level up until it doesn't put you over the limit.

Quote:
If I'm a magic user, is there any downside to standing in a spot and practicing spells to become more proficient? Obviously I'd have to watch for hunger.. but are there diminishing returns if I just stand there and spam a detection spell, for example? Or offensive magic.. can I level it by hurling spells at nothing?
The main disadvantage is just that it is very, very boring. It is something you can try, if you are so inclined.

There are limitations to how effective the strategy is, though; in particular, how much proficiency you can gain depends on the depth you're at, so to get your proficiency really high this way you need to do it someplace pretty deep. Casting the spell in town a zillion times won't help much. And for offensive magic the answer's no, you cannot level it that way at all.

Quote:
I'm a little unclear on how learning spells works.. my chaos/nature mage for example.. is there anything stopping me from buying a spellbook from another school of magic and learning?
The details of this depend on the class. Mages are a class with a primary and secondary realm, and access to all general realms.

They lack access to class-specific realms, so you cannot buy, say, a Rage book and study from that. Because mages have a secondary realm, and secondary realms can be changed, they can study from other general realms (say, Sorcery); but doing so will make you completely forget your original secondary realm. So you could buy a Sorcery book and learn from it, but then you'd be a chaos/sorcery mage... and if you want to revert to Nature you'll have to re-learn all your previously studied spells.

Quote:
Lastly, the help section in frogcomposband is like... REALLY good. Best of any RL i've seen.. but are there any decent online references for this wonderful variant?
At this time, not really. If you want to look up details on specific monsters and the like (beyond what the game tells you sans spoilers), you can use the edit files (e.g. r_info.txt) and the code itself as a reference; but you may expose yourself to spoilers as a result. (The edit files come with the game, so you can read them either online or offline.)
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Old September 23, 2021, 06:20   #3
Armos
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Thank you SO MUCH for your time writing this up. This is immensely helpful and answers my questions and then some. Very awesome. The knowledge menu made my head explode.

My ninja is 25 now and I'm starting to see a lot of gear that makes me go "Oooo!"

Funny thing is I've never tried stealth in a RL. I picked ninja to satisfy my inner 13 year old and am having a really good time. Maybe its because I got a cloak of stealth and an amulet that helps stealth.

Thanks again!
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Old October 1, 2021, 08:47   #4
Seraphimus
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
For melee, Warrior is a simple option, but if you want a bit more spice in your character, try a Weaponsmith, Samurai, Ninja or Rune-Knight. All of them are very strong classes, and not too hard to play as a newbie.
I agree with almost all of this except, The rune-Knight is not Newbie Friendly at all, Really strong, but easily one of the most complex band classes I've ever played, especially if you dont know where to find the spoiler for their abilities in the help files.

other advice is, The more elemental resists you have the better protected your gear is, I believe triple fire, cold, lightning, or Acid resist prevents those elements from destroying your stuff completely, it's not needed, and you can use potions to to supplement them when needed. otherwise, Free Action, confusion, fear, chaos, nether, hold life and nexus are probably the most important of the "High resists" (a high resist is any resistance not Fire, Cold, Lighting, Acid, or Poison) I believe in that order but it varies somewhat from band to band so I may be a bit off the mark for that one. Basically prioritize anything that can prevent you from acting followed by the standard elemental resists up to poison then the more common super high damage elements like Nether and chaos.

Also, Potions, scrolls staves and wands are incredibly useful, if you find a rod of detection use it, Often, keep it forever, trust me. Don't be afraid to enter a dungeon with a bag half full of tools for survival, especially as you go deeper. Things to look out for are some form of teleport (staff is ideal as you can't use a scroll if you're blind but you don't need eyes to use a staff), a stack of recall scrolls, Potions of Cure critical or !healing, a rod of detection, potions of speed, Curing, and antidote.

Also, always bring a ranged attack option. A bow, or spells, there are a lot of dangerous enemies that even a melee powerhouse wants to avoid having to run up too.

Depending on your character you may also want some form of digger or turn stone to mud wand (small zigzag tunnels help deal with summoners).

When you reach dungeon level 40-45 it's where stat gain potions start dropping more regularly, and where things start getting much more dangerous, so it can be a good depth to farm for gear and enemies for a bit


Oh yeah, and if you're playing with the wilderness on the dungeons are themed, pay attention, if you have bad high resists but really good elemental resists you'll do better in a dragon themed dungeon, Undead use a lot of nether and drain life, Giants require a fair amount of hitpoints or powerful ranged options, etc. You'll learn more as you explore.

Last edited by Seraphimus; October 1, 2021 at 09:04.
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Old October 1, 2021, 09:55   #5
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I agree on Rune knights. These are OP but they are low hps as far as warriors go. And big hps are a good buffer when you are unfamiliar with a game. Likewise good stealth makes things easier. I'd suggest a chunky rogue as a solid option. Stuff like half-orc, half-ogre, bronze draconion. Good hps, melee, ranged... Just all round solid option.
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Old October 1, 2021, 19:30   #6
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I agree on Rune knights. These are OP but they are low hps as far as warriors go. And big hps are a good buffer when you are unfamiliar with a game. Likewise good stealth makes things easier. I'd suggest a chunky rogue as a solid option. Stuff like half-orc, half-ogre, bronze draconion. Good hps, melee, ranged... Just all round solid option.
Rangers can be pretty good in a similar vein if you pick a tougher race, with the advantage of access to some decent utility casting Speaking of Rangers and paladins whilst not necessarily the best classes overall, are a great way to break into casting they both have more health than a mage and decent Ranged/melee scores respectively meaning you can fall back on alternate combat methods and have some buffer if you make a misstep.

Later in the game, Slays and brands on your weapons are potentially huge damage multipliers, *slay evil* is almost necessary for many endgame bosses if you want to melee/ranged them, Magic has more leeway. But brands don't stack, the game will pick the strongest one for a given foe and use that damage, with the exceptions of Mana, Chaos and Vorpal(which is often labeled as Sharpness) Mana costs SP on attack to do extra damage, so you need to have some kind of casting to use it, Chaos rolls a random brand every swing and if it matches another brand on a weapon it boosts it's damage, and Sharpness is less a weapon brand and more a Crit booster. every swing rolls a dice and if it rolls right it gets a special crit that stacks with everything even regular crits, and then it rolls again.

and finally speed is king. you really want to avoid being slower than foes at all costs, faster is ideal. some big enemies can kill even the toughest players if they get a free double move.
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Old November 3, 2021, 20:22   #7
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I find Rogues the easiest. Stealth makes the game much easier - it means you get to choose who you fight at any given time rather the monsters deciding for you. In particular, many quests are much easier with high stealth.

Suggested build: Human->Demigod->Hermes race. For Personality I'd do with Nimble. And choose Burglary for your magic realm.

You can try dual wielding once you find two good light weapons (but keep an eye on your to hit % and be ready to switch to single wielding if you find you can't hit a tough opponent).

Grab a sling and bullets.

Value items that enhance stealth. Make constant use of the Tread Softly spell once you get it.

And try to survive to CL 33 when you learn the Make Haste spell and can haste yourself on demand.

When I find myself banging my head against the wall with some other classes, I always go back to a Rogue.
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Old November 4, 2021, 12:23   #8
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Where did Herringfolt get his name from?

Why isn't the Nine-tailed fox a "C" instead of an "f" ? Just saying...
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Old November 4, 2021, 17:12   #9
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Because f is glossed as "feline/fox", and Bast would be a forgettable bore if nine-tailed foxes were C.
(I actually gave nine-tailed foxes new flavor text in the offline dev version some time ago, just haven't got around to pushing it online yet.)

Herringfolt's name is... a bit obscure, but if you know your Tolkien and also speak Finnish, you can figure it out
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Old November 4, 2021, 21:26   #10
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Herringfolt's name is... a bit obscure, but if you know your Tolkien and also speak Finnish, you can figure it out
Something something firienholt...
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