Horned Reaper should break through walls

ranger jeff · January 15, 2012, 08:30

Just an idea. Was hoping for some drops from a demon pit at lvl98 but as I skirted around it the damn horned reaper trampled 95% of the demons in there. Stupid. Either there should be more subtlety between trampling and pushing past, or let the dang reaper come right through the wall at me rather than trampling everybody in the pit (rectangular pits, you know.)

Starhawk · January 17, 2012, 15:44

Because there's nothing like an entire pit of awake, angry demons stomping through the level at you.

Your proposed change would make levels with demon pits unplayable for anyone who isn't prepared to stomp each and every demon in the pit, since the Horned Reaper would end up leading them all straight to you.

Estie · January 17, 2012, 15:53

Mass summoners who level the terrain, yes. ToME2 endgame was like that, it gets old fast.

Compare that to the undead pit: Black reavers might bore a tunnel, some things will evaporate....its an interesting tactical game clearing those; big U pits not so much, but can be fun when you try to keep the numbers up in a controlled way. And yes, Horned Reapers ruin the fun.

debo · January 17, 2012, 16:57

By the endgame, I avoid U pits every single time, and undead pits more often than not. It's just not worth it, they take forever to kill and I get irrationally angry when my consumables get obliterated.

Dragon pits are a joke in comparison, and you get similar loot from their corpses.

The only good thing about U pits, IMO, is that they're generally easy to avoid. If Horned Reapers can munch through walls, though... :[

Derakon · January 17, 2012, 17:28

Black Reavers are notably inobservant. They'll stop chasing you pretty quickly if you get away from them -- and ones that spawn asleep (which doesn't include those in graveyards) are very hard to wake up. This is almost certainly supposed to balance out their notable destructive potential.

Personally I'd just disallow Horned Reapers from spawning in demon pits. You shouldn't have monsters in a pit that, through their presence, make the pit less of a threat. Heck, I wouldn't care much if they were removed from the game entirely; they're a recent addition and I've never really found them that interesting to fight.

Estie · January 17, 2012, 19:10

I wouldnt go so far as to remove them, they are tough melee monsters as opposed to breathweapon using elemental pit fiends/balrogs. However, the trample mechanic could be changed or removed.

Its true that lategame I dont clear every undead pit, but the first one is almost always worthwhile if I have the means to handle it. Also, if det obj shows something like a palanthir inside, its pit clearing time. Thats the advantage of det obj; it makes you clear hard pits which youd ignore without the spell.

Derakon · January 17, 2012, 20:12

Alternately, Detect Objects tells you when it's worth the bother to burn Banishment charges / lure monsters out and Destruct them.

(Do drujs still show up in graveyards? So not worth dealing with them if so, unless you have an effective spammable ball spell...which is almost as cheesy as banish)

will_asher · January 17, 2012, 22:31

What about just making KILL_BODY monsters not trample monsters of their own type (demons not trample demons)

Derakon · January 17, 2012, 22:38

That would make the flavor text of the Horned Reaper inaccurate, if nothing else.

Antoine · January 18, 2012, 03:59

I though horned reapers had already been removed from pits in the recent pit revamp?

January 15, 2012, 08:30	#1
ranger jeff Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 78	Horned Reaper should break through walls Just an idea. Was hoping for some drops from a demon pit at lvl98 but as I skirted around it the damn horned reaper trampled 95% of the demons in there. Stupid. Either there should be more subtlety between trampling and pushing past, or let the dang reaper come right through the wall at me rather than trampling everybody in the pit (rectangular pits, you know.)

January 17, 2012, 22:31	#8
will_asher DaJAngband Maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,124 Donated: $10	What about just making KILL_BODY monsters not trample monsters of their own type (demons not trample demons) __________________ Will_Asher aka LibraryAdventurer My old variant DaJAngband: http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home (defunct and so old it's forked from Angband 3.1.0 -I think- but it's probably playable...)

January 18, 2012, 03:59	#10
Antoine Ironband/Quickband Maintainer Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,009	I though horned reapers had already been removed from pits in the recent pit revamp? __________________ Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/

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January 17, 2012, 15:44	#2
Starhawk Adept Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Indianapolis IN, USA Posts: 246	Because there's nothing like an entire pit of awake, angry demons stomping through the level at you. Your proposed change would make levels with demon pits unplayable for anyone who isn't prepared to stomp each and every demon in the pit, since the Horned Reaper would end up leading them all straight to you.

January 17, 2012, 15:53	#3
Estie Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 2,160	Mass summoners who level the terrain, yes. ToME2 endgame was like that, it gets old fast. Compare that to the undead pit: Black reavers might bore a tunnel, some things will evaporate....its an interesting tactical game clearing those; big U pits not so much, but can be fun when you try to keep the numbers up in a controlled way. And yes, Horned Reapers ruin the fun.

January 17, 2012, 16:57	#4
debo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,400	By the endgame, I avoid U pits every single time, and undead pits more often than not. It's just not worth it, they take forever to kill and I get irrationally angry when my consumables get obliterated. Dragon pits are a joke in comparison, and you get similar loot from their corpses. The only good thing about U pits, IMO, is that they're generally easy to avoid. If Horned Reapers can munch through walls, though... :[

January 17, 2012, 17:28	#5
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	Black Reavers are notably inobservant. They'll stop chasing you pretty quickly if you get away from them -- and ones that spawn asleep (which doesn't include those in graveyards) are very hard to wake up. This is almost certainly supposed to balance out their notable destructive potential. Personally I'd just disallow Horned Reapers from spawning in demon pits. You shouldn't have monsters in a pit that, through their presence, make the pit less of a threat. Heck, I wouldn't care much if they were removed from the game entirely; they're a recent addition and I've never really found them that interesting to fight.

January 17, 2012, 19:10	#6
Estie Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 2,160	I wouldnt go so far as to remove them, they are tough melee monsters as opposed to breathweapon using elemental pit fiends/balrogs. However, the trample mechanic could be changed or removed. Its true that lategame I dont clear every undead pit, but the first one is almost always worthwhile if I have the means to handle it. Also, if det obj shows something like a palanthir inside, its pit clearing time. Thats the advantage of det obj; it makes you clear hard pits which youd ignore without the spell.

January 17, 2012, 20:12	#7
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	Alternately, Detect Objects tells you when it's worth the bother to burn Banishment charges / lure monsters out and Destruct them. (Do drujs still show up in graveyards? So not worth dealing with them if so, unless you have an effective spammable ball spell...which is almost as cheesy as banish)

January 17, 2012, 22:38	#9
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	That would make the flavor text of the Horned Reaper inaccurate, if nothing else.

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