Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 17, 2011, 04:21   #61
Antoine
Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,009
Antoine is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
* Being able to cast Banishment renders graveyards and zoos trivially plunderable for their floor items. Of course this is only an endgame mage trick, so I don't know that it's worth fixing. NPP handles this by giving the items to the monsters in the nest, but then there's less temptation to try to clear the thing out.
Is there some halfway-house - like, when a monster is Banished, any objects it is standing on are destroyed?

A.
__________________
Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/
Antoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 06:25   #62
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Is there some halfway-house - like, when a monster is Banished, any objects it is standing on are destroyed?

A.
I really don't think this needs fixing, honestly. It's such a niche case, and besides, punishing mages for one of their few useful abilities (namely, to avoid fights that are not worth fighting without having to avoid the monsters involved) just seems uncalled-for.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 12:37   #63
scud
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sarf Laaaahdon
Posts: 323
scud is on a distinguished road
What is 'weak' branding?

I am at present seeing "You slightly burn the Ethereal hound", and I find the qualifier 'slightly' far more amusing than I probably should...
scud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 12:39   #64
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I really don't think this needs fixing, honestly. It's such a niche case, and besides, punishing mages for one of their few useful abilities (namely, to avoid fights that are not worth fighting without having to avoid the monsters involved) just seems uncalled-for.
It's not really a punishment. Assuming, as you say, the point is to "avoid fights that are not worth fighting", then that is accomplished. If the point was actually to gather a room full of treasure by doing something rather ordinary for a mage, namely casting a spell, then yes it's a punishment.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 15:33   #65
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by scud View Post
What is 'weak' branding?

I am at present seeing "You slightly burn the Ethereal hound", and I find the qualifier 'slightly' far more amusing than I probably should...
Magnate added some x2 brands, with the idea that they might be more viable for off-weapon branding (though as far as I'm aware nothing uses them yet in the standard set). Feel free to suggest better messaging.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 17:18   #66
Starhawk
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Indianapolis IN, USA
Posts: 246
Starhawk is on a distinguished road
"singe" might be better verbiage than "slightly burn."
Starhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 17:59   #67
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
It's not really a punishment. Assuming, as you say, the point is to "avoid fights that are not worth fighting", then that is accomplished. If the point was actually to gather a room full of treasure by doing something rather ordinary for a mage, namely casting a spell, then yes it's a punishment.
Okay, let me put it this way: this is an "obvious rule patch", a change in the rules solely to prevent some undesirable behavior, that makes no sense in-universe. Banishment destroys monsters. Naturally that means that the monsters' inventories are gone. Why should it affect things on the floor? The spell explicitly targets monsters, not terrain or objects.

Now, obvious rule patches can be acceptable or even important if the alternative is seriously broken. Then there's an obvious strong justification -- if we didn't do this, then this undesirable result would occur, with a significant impact on the game. If you don't have that kind of strong justification, though, then obvious rule patches are undesirable, because they break the illusion of a consistent world.

Basically, what we have here is a corner case that is, yes, technically exploitative. The requirements for exploitation require you to be playing a specific class and to have gotten that class's last spellbook, so there's a very narrow window for exploitation before you go on to win the game. If you patch the game to remove this exploitation, then all the other presumably-justified uses of the Banishment ability in more limited form (scrolls and staves) have this bizarre behavior for no real gain.

In other words, I don't think the cost-benefit is there.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 19:50   #68
Max Stats
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 324
Max Stats is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starhawk View Post
"singe" might be better verbiage than "slightly burn."
I like that too. What about the other elements?

Frost: "You chill it." (or, to be silly, "You give it a mild case of frostbite.")
Acid: "You irritate it."
Lightning: "You zap it" is currently the strong version; maybe this should be the weak version, and "You shock it" should be the strong version. I thought of "You electrocute it" but technically that would mean you killed it.
Poison: Not sure here... "You sicken it" or "You nauseate it" sounds just as strong as "You poison it" besides the fact that they make it sound like your character is just ugly.
Max Stats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 20:24   #69
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
In other words, I don't think the cost-benefit is there.
What is your day job? Lawyer? You have an amazing way of explaining things clearly. I wish I could do that.
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2011, 20:30   #70
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Stats View Post
I like that too. What about the other elements?

Frost: "You chill it." (or, to be silly, "You give it a mild case of frostbite.")
Acid: "You irritate it."
Lightning: "You zap it" is currently the strong version; maybe this should be the weak version, and "You shock it" should be the strong version. I thought of "You electrocute it" but technically that would mean you killed it.
Poison: Not sure here... "You sicken it" or "You nauseate it" sounds just as strong as "You poison it" besides the fact that they make it sound like your character is just ugly.
Ok, I've made changes to fire (singe), lightning (zap and shock) and poison (sicken). Chill was already in place - I'm just looking for something better than irritate for x2 acid brand, as irritate is more like enrage than corrode. Melts?
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MUD development Whelk Idle chatter 11 January 9, 2011 01:03
Is development *too* active? the Invisible Stalker Vanilla 14 December 26, 2010 17:47
Help start development Kurogane Idle chatter 17 October 28, 2010 07:03
Development forum camlost Oook! 5 February 22, 2009 21:06
[FA] FAangband development Nick Variants 174 May 30, 2008 02:02


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.