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Old November 15, 2015, 09:46   #1
Stephen2
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Unhappy In with a chance to win after 25 years

Hi all, have been playing since Moria on and off, with never a chance of winning. I'm an expert of getting to dlvl 40, but have consistently died at that approx depth.

Now, finally, I've been able to alter my faulty playstyle with lots of forum reading (thank you), I've got a High Elf Mage who might win.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=18303

But I'm really not sure what I'm doing at this depth - really need general advice on what I should be doing from now until Morgoth.

For example, I'm trolling about dlvl 85, but for no particular reason am I staying there.. I find it hard to take on any uniques that are native depth >65 or so, and my mana reserves feel really low? Should I be heading down to dlvl 98? Or staying here? Am I looking to gain levels, or equipment? Which equipment/stats are my goals from here?

Thanks very much for much the assistance :)
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Old November 15, 2015, 09:55   #2
Stephen2
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The Tarrasque breathes disenchatment.
You die.

Wouldn't worry about the advice Actually, bring it on anyway..
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Old November 15, 2015, 10:40   #3
jrodman
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I'm certainly no expert, but I'm curious how that happened.

Generally I wouldn't let the Tarrasque get line of sight on a puny mage. Line of Sight abuse is the core principle of how I play mages. Weak sauce, perhaps, but safe.
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Old November 15, 2015, 10:46   #4
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen2 View Post
The Tarrasque breathes disenchatment.
You die.

Wouldn't worry about the advice Actually, bring it on anyway..
Haradrim & Isildur & BoS +7 instead of Himring & Celegorm, & Thror. Lose one STR, rDark, rChaos, rNether but gain +4 speed, rSound and rNexus and better gain fighting stats.

That +4 speed is the important part. That puts you above +10 speed which hasted is over +20 which makes double-moves from very fast monsters impossible.

Also run away from Tarrasque

As general advice, dive a bit further, detect like crazy, leave level is it looks like it contains too many too bad monsters, prepare for fights, never get surrounded, be faster than your opponents.
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Old November 15, 2015, 21:55   #5
Bogatyr
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It's essential to build up monster memory over your games (so don't keep starting new characters previous to 4.x) so you know the maximum attack output of any particular monster, and avoid stepping into line of sight of those that can one-shot kill @. Rods of probing are not just for the current game, but all future ones as well. You're investing in a @-saving knowledge base.

Also, if you like mages, it may in fact be easier to play one of the faster leveling mage-friendly races. With faster leveling you get more powerful spells sooner. gnome is perhaps the best mage: the beginning game is really fast (choose 18/50 INT to start) with lots of SP and spells, and the end game is really fast (with Kelek's you can raid any vault almost risk-free quite easily). I don't think you can avoid the long slog through the middle game with any mage: you must be very, very picky of the fights you choose before you get CON up high enough to get out of one-shot territory.

With mages, remember to use devices! wands/rods are *powerful* in the hands of a mage, and gnomes have the highest magic device in the game, which multiplies the damage output of wands/rods.

Also, unsymmetric LoS (hockey stick) is your friend, use it. Dig hockey stick corridors, and pound on the baddies while they can't hit you back. Takes some preparation but as you found out, there's no glory to be found going toe to toe with such as the Tarrasque
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Old November 15, 2015, 22:12   #6
Ingwe Ingweron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post
It's essential to build up monster memory over your games (so don't keep starting new characters previous to 4.x) so you know the maximum attack output of any particular monster, and avoid stepping into line of sight of those that can one-shot kill @. Rods of probing are not just for the current game, but all future ones as well. You're investing in a @-saving knowledge base.
Or, just copy monster.txt from the gamedata directory, rename it lore.txt, and put it in the user directory. This will give full monster memory. Having played for years and using rods of probing to gain knowledge of every single possible monster (including Father Christmas and his Elves ), I don't feel the slightest bit bad about doing this. What was that a Nightcrawler or Nightwalker breathed....? Plus, I like that I can then restart a @ from scratch and the item knowledge shows the unknown flavors, but not everything @ hasn't found yet, that way I can keep track of what has been found.
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Old November 15, 2015, 22:31   #7
Timo Pietilš
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It's essential to build up monster memory over your games (so don't keep starting new characters previous to 4.x) so you know the maximum attack output of any particular monster
That doesn't really matter. What matters is to learn how those damage capabilities form. A very large monster can breath a lot of damage. Basic four and poison can kill you without resist. No high element damage more than 550 with breath. Spell damages depend of monster native depth. Stunning can KO you. Being slower than your opponent can kill you. Having low HP can kill you.

What you need against unknown monster is to get the first shot in in safe position and watch what it did to monster. A knights move at the corridor is enough. Keep a big HP safety marginal until you have learned what it can do. If it stuns you heal immediately. Never ever be slower than what you are facing. Never get surrounded by unknowns.

Of course knowing that something can't hurt you is useful so that you don't need to be paranoid around absolutely everything.

Speed, HP, fail-proof escapes and healing. When you have those you can survive unknowns quite easily if you play it carefully.
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Old November 16, 2015, 02:16   #8
debo
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What a disenchanting way to lose.
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Old November 16, 2015, 07:23   #9
Stephen2
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What a disenchanting way to lose.
Hahaha +1 for you.

Thanks team, and for those interested, dying to Tarrasque happened for the exact reason I could never get past ~dlvl 40 before...

Not knowing what to do at a particular stage of the game/dungeon level (what is my goal here?) coupled with growing strength, without actual knowledge (what does Tarrasque do?) meaning stupidly trying to take on the whole level.

Truth as I've learned is to keep diving, and always assume you will die!

I'm gonna try Gnome mage now, thanks to above advice
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Old November 16, 2015, 08:33   #10
Timo Pietilš
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I'm gonna try Gnome mage now, thanks to above advice
I would suggest something more robust, like Dwarf Rogue. While Dwarf has bad stealth combination of rogue stealth and detections and Dwarf CON - bonus & higher HP dice makes that pretty decent combo for learning the game. Play it like warrior with utility spells and you should be OK.

Another hint: when you get probing, use it at knights move positions to learn what monster can do without being in LoS of the monster.
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