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Old June 23, 2010, 04:53   #1
will_asher
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Parody thread: How to keep DaJAngband from getting too hard..

So I've been reading that long "How to make the game harder thread" The problem is I don't think the game needs to be made harder (in most ways) and yet I really like several of the ideas in that thread..

There are certain things that I think do need to be harder than V. I'm glad that the early game DJA (1st ~20 levels) is harder than in V because the early game in V is mostly boring. And there are certain aspects/abuses which should be harder/less effective which is why I made destruction not affect vaults (as much..*) in DJA. I also don't like the idea of 'got the immunty, now that attack effect is a complete non-issue' for things like confusion, blindness, and paralysis (which is why I added pandamonium fiends).
But in general, (especially in the mid-game), I'd like to make the game slightly easier and ease the jump in difficulty which occurs around dL40. I'm not real sure how to do that though. any suggestions?

* destruction doesn't affect vaults, but some earthquake effects can have partial effects (like opening the vault in place of STM). And the earthquake trap/monster spell can still affect vaults, though it has a smaller chance for each square to be affected.

PS: I've never won, never faced Sauron or Morgoth, and have gotten past dL60 about 3 or 4 times ever. I'd like to be able to win my own variant eventually, but that's really a different issue from keeping it from getting too hard. My primary problem is taking too many risks and being reluctant to escape the level.
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Old June 23, 2010, 05:01   #2
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The easiest way to make the midgame easier is to make HP and SP track more with Clevel and less with Con or Int/Wis. Or even make the gain per Con a lot more linear as opposed to the current exponential.

Another change would be to make it easier to get extra blows with heavy weapons.

That being said, having won DJA twice, I don't particularly think the midgame needs to be any easier. Stat gain maybe, but that's just because it's boring.
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Old June 23, 2010, 05:05   #3
will_asher
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I'm probably just forget my original goal of making the game (slightly) easier and just try to keep it from getting too much harder. Because there a lot of ideas that I like (from others and from myself) which make the game harder.
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Old June 23, 2010, 05:13   #4
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I agree with fizzix. The DaJ mid-game is that it is a bit easier, or at least it seems that way compared to the early game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher
I've never won, never faced Sauron or Morgoth, and have gotten past dL60 about 3 or 4 times ever.
Me too.
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Old June 23, 2010, 14:14   #5
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The whole "unable to see mountain-sized ogre that is standing in the same fully lit room" thing comes to mind
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Old June 24, 2010, 02:10   #6
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Quote:
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The whole "unable to see mountain-sized ogre that is standing in the same fully lit room" thing comes to mind
That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevent for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.

Also, you have to remember (and I have to find a way to remind the player in-game) that rooms are never fully lit in the dungeon. Even if the whole room is lit, it is dimly lit and not empty of places to hide. The dungeon map doesn't show all the details of the dungeon (maybe I should have more details described in-game with some text when you enter a room or something). That is why ranger chieftains and master thieves are able to hide so that you don't notice even when they are near you.
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Old June 24, 2010, 02:24   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevent for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.

Also, you have to remember (and I have to find a way to remind the player in-game) that rooms are never fully lit in the dungeon. Even if the whole room is lit, it is dimly lit and not empty of places to hide. The dungeon map doesn't show all the details of the dungeon (maybe I should have more details described in-game with some text when you enter a room or something). That is why ranger chieftains and master thieves are able to hide so that you don't notice even when they are near you.
That's fine if they are not moving. Once they are coming at you using ranged attacks it is absurd you cannot tell where they are to an accuracy of 10 feet. It's absurd even without the ranged attacks if they are moving at more than 1/4 normal base speed, regardless of their actual speed.
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Old June 24, 2010, 03:03   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
That's fine if they are not moving. Once they are coming at you using ranged attacks it is absurd you cannot tell where they are to an accuracy of 10 feet. It's absurd even without the ranged attacks if they are moving at more than 1/4 normal base speed, regardless of their actual speed.
It'll be no problem to make them much easier to notice whenever they're using ranged attacks that give away their location (some spells wouldn't nessesarily do that). I don't want to penalize their speed though, becuase the PC can move at full speed without his stealth being penalized in the least.
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Old June 24, 2010, 03:33   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevant for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.
Will there be AC adjustments based on relative size? Things bigger than you should be easier to hit. Things smaller than you should be harder. I'm guessing some of this is already figured into the AC (and would need to be removed), but it would be better if the base AC just represented armament, and then it were further modified by relative size (and other stuff).

The same could be done for relative speed. Something that moves much faster than you should be harder to hit.

Since DEX doesn't affect speed, maybe a DEX adjustment too, or is that too D&D?

Mostly unrelated, but I ran into this mis-feature. My blow glanced harmlessly off of a sleeping guardian naga, and yet the naga remained asleep. I'm thinking that getting whacked with a 16 lb. broad axe would at least wake it up.
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Old June 24, 2010, 04:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
It'll be no problem to make them much easier to notice whenever they're using ranged attacks that give away their location (some spells wouldn't nessesarily do that). I don't want to penalize their speed though, becuase the PC can move at full speed without his stealth being penalized in the least.
The player's stealth does not make him invisible, not even the slightest bit hard to detect. It only stops sleeping monsters from waking up. All awake monsters have ESP. They know the exact position of the @ at all times. To be evenhanded, you'd have to give the player perfect ESP at all times.

My reasoning about speed is not related to noise. If you want to move from one hiding place to another, you have to wait until my eyes are diverted or I will see you. If you are crossing 10 feet in the time I cross 10, I can't help but see you. If I have extra speed, that only makes things worse since presumably I'm scanning faster.

We're not asking for evenhanded. We just want to be able to see a monster coming straight at the @ in a lit room. It's your variant, so you gotta do what you gotta do, but some of us will never be able to get over this aspect.
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