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July 28, 2020, 02:17   #121
lea2501
Scout

Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 48
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Egavactip It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.
I think that its okay to name it with "speed" and "movement speed" etc, but i think we surely need a official guide to speed with detailed effects, and differences between them, how different speeds interact between them, etc, so a novice player like me can go for reference.

July 28, 2020, 04:07   #122
DavidMedley
Knight

Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 774
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sphara As far as I understand it: If you have +3 Speed and +1 movement speed, your speed is +13 WHEN YOU ARE WALKING. As long as you do ANY OTHER action (attack, eat, zap a wand), your speed is +3. People who know the code, please correct me if I happen to be wrong.
You are close, but speeds do not add like you suggest; they multiply. In your example it should be 1.3x general speed but effectively 2.6x speed for walking (aka +16 or so, not +13).

July 28, 2020, 05:35   #123
whartung
Scout

Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 48
Quote:
 Originally Posted by wobbly Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.
So, is that how the game works?

It simply adds "energy" to every entity that's active. Then, for that tick, it gives an action to anyone with more than 10 energy, and then deducts 10 energy. It repeatedly does this until no one active is over 10, then it fires another tick?

Code:
```    // run tick
for e in active_entities
e.energy = e.energy + e.speed;
if e.energy > 10 then acting_entities.add(e);
end for

// consume energy
while not acting_entities.empty
for e in acting_entities
if e.energy > 10 then
action(e);
e.energy = e.energy - 10;
if e.energy < 10 then active_entities.remove(e);
end if
end for
end while```

July 28, 2020, 06:07   #124
Nick
Vanilla maintainer

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 8,473
Donated: \$60
Quote:
 Originally Posted by wobbly Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.
This is essentially correct, but possibly not clear. To be absolutely precise, the player's speed as presented is an index into this table (where the 10 line consists of speeds +10 to +19, etc):
Code:
```	/* -100 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -90 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -80 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -70 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -60 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
/*  -40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
/*  -30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
/*  -20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
/*  -10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
/*    0 */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
/*  +10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
/*  +20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
/*  +30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
/*  +40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
/*  +50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
/*  +60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
/*  +70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
/*  +80 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,```
So each game tick the player accumulates the amount of energy indicated - at 0 speed 10, at +3 speed 13, at -10 speed 5, and so on. Once the player's energy reaches 100, they get a turn - so that takes 10 ticks at normal speed, 8 ticks at +3 speed (8x13=104), 20 ticks at -10 speed.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by wobbly Move speed reduces the energy cost of moving. A normal action takes 100 energy. At +1 move it costs 50 energy (only movement not other actions), +shots on a bow work the same.
This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.

Also on what we call this - it's been traditional in Angband for a while to call extra blows "attack speed" and extra shots "shooting speed", which is why I went with "movement speed" for extra moves. Maybe it would be better to just use extra * for all these.
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July 28, 2020, 07:47   #125
bughunter
Rookie

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 15
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nick This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.
So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy?

As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?

July 28, 2020, 08:46   #126
Nick
Vanilla maintainer

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 8,473
Donated: \$60
Quote:
 Originally Posted by bughunter So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy? As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?
Yes, that's right.
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In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

July 28, 2020, 12:01   #127
Sideways
Knight

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 675
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Egavactip It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.
While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.)

"+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot
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 July 28, 2020, 17:54 #128 Pete Mack Prophet   Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,788 Donated: \$40 With +3 speed and fast walk, your walking speed is increased by 2×, not by +10: i.e it becomes+16. In general, fast actions take 1/2 normal energy, be it walking, shooting, or casting. Note that Fast walk with +1 extra shot or fast cast guarantees full pillardance capability against same-speed monsters.
July 28, 2020, 21:58   #129
Egavactip
Swordsman

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 361
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sideways While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.) "+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot
I'd prefer shooting rate over shooting speed but at least shooting speed occurs in the clear context of missile weapons, whereas movement speed and speed both involve character movement through the dungeon, it seems. Very confusing.

 July 29, 2020, 12:39 #130 Sphara Swordsman   Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 339 Is this known or been fixed already? Fighting Beorn with an axe Beorn dropped. Attached Thumbnails

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